This team has some strong points, none of which is managing and coaching. Hopefully they won’t resign Grienke (what an embarrassment to his career), Perez should consider retiring also. Looks like Melendez resorted back to his old habits with his stance and swing. Bianca, Vazquez, Beatty, Taylor, Hearns (better pitching at the LLWS), should not see any action after the call-ups. Can’t keep referring to every move or decision that Quatraro and Sweeney make as an audition, analyzation, test, etc. this excuse has been used for them all year. No constancy will get you no quality, too many line up changes. Looking ahead, how do you keep both Vinnie and Pratto as long as Perez is still on the team. Give me Waters in CF and get an above average LF (Melendez doesn’t cut it) and RF with some power. Who will be the Sept call ups? Enjoy your column.
This is what a good GM does -- sign a guy with future value to another team that matters in the race, then flip him for something better for your team. Cole is definitely that dude, and hope with a full offseason here, he gets even stronger. Getting into the 7th every time would be amazing (especially with the current roster of relief arms)
I might be the biggest Ragans guy here. But even I’ve got to pump the breaks a little on the ace talk. I’m not saying he can’t be. But need to see a little bit of longevity with it and staying healthy. Honestly, the only thing that might stop it is injury as players don’t usually get healthy as they age. But to be on that list…..to me it means they have a legit starting pitcher. Ace, not ace, whatever. They have two solutions now. It’s a great list to be on. Those are all legitimate starting pitchers. Not just guys we are hoping on!
Well, I do think we get used to some things a little bit after watching a team struggle for years on end. For instance you watch Ragans pitch and it’s a revelation at how he is looking right now. And it is, 100% agree, but this is what a good starting pitcher looks like. A lot of teams have more than one of these guys in the same rotation. Some teams certainly don’t either….but find a way to trade with the Rangers more this offseason please.
This is what a good starting pitcher looks like, but also the list in there shows that it isn't especially common. I think it's okay to look at what he's doing as more than what a good starting pitcher does because, right now, it is more than that.
I think what I’m trying to say is after a couple years and 10 guys where we’ve said “could, might, if this pitch, etc, etc” its just nice to watch a guy shove and have a pretty good idea you are going to be in the game that day. 40% of the time I feel that way right now. If we can get the “could, might, etc” to just one spot in the rotation…we are a stop closer I guess.
I’m only restraining from saying he’s an ace by the way because I want to be pleasantly surprised and not mildly letdown. Managing expectations here. Lol.
Only thing that will stop him is injury. Chalk it up baby! Lol
I actually think, it’s probably the best thing that could have happened for JJ. If nobody else does a single thing out of this deadline. He found a way to get a frontline starter. I just want the evaluation to go the FO as well this year and hopefully we’ll see some of that this offseason. But it’s a big win and hopefully encourages him to continue dealing. If anything, we need to run through these guys a little faster.
So you’re saying they have a young superstar SS, and a hard throwing lefty at the top of the rotation……..hmmmm…..that sounds familiar……I mean, they are probably missing 20 other comps to the Rays right now (but I will go to my grave that MJ and Raley should be the same player if they use MJ right)….but…..maybe….getting closer? It’s an optimistic take to make for sure. But I’m optimistic the day after Ragans pitches.
I am less pessimistic about Cruz than most, I think. His fastball looked great early, but he just kept hanging the slider. I don't know a lot about him but I doubt he built that minor league K rate on middle-middle sliders. So I choose to believe it was nerves, and I am looking forward to his next couple appearances.
I mean, you give up four runs and can't get through an inning and there's going to be pessimism. I think it's silly to give up on him after one outing. He has legit stuff.
I am in on Ragans, though it is early days yet and we will have to see what happens when the league adjusts. I am also in on Cruz, bad outing notwithstanding. And I am NOT in favor of moving Singer. But there is a lot of dead weight on the pitching staff. Greinke has been flat-out embarrassing - I feel bad for him, I don't want my memories of him to be this season. Lyles should be gone. Keller should be gone, same with Kowar.
I do want to comment on "being transactional". I'm a fan of the Rays, and they have been hugely successful in being transactional. But they had a team with more talent to build around - we don't have that. Can we afford to be transactional yet? Can we afford to think about potentially flipping ANYONE while we are trying to build a core, much less a team? I don't know, I really don't. I am hugely torn on this; if we start being too transactional too soon, are we just another A's team? Always selling, never building?
But I will say this much, and pull on my asbestos suit:: We need to move Perez to Miami, and we need to move Bobby Witt Jr NOW if he will not extend with us, and the indicators so far seem to indicate that he won't. I also TRULY believe that the Royals need to look at some of the guys who are being cut now as targets for bounceback-season contracts while we continue to develop and flip them to contenders next year unless keeping them makes more sense. And a question - Nick Senzel looks as if he is on his way out the door in Cincinnati. Is he worth a look?
How the league adjusts will be huge for him. I do think there was at least some adjustment from the A's game to last night, which was what was even more encouraging for me, but there's still plenty of time and games to see how teams do when he sees them a second time, though I'm not sure if he'll have a chance to see a team twice. It looks like maybe Houston? Which, that's a pretty big test with their offense, so I'm actually hoping we do see it.
On the subject of being transactional, I think there is a faction of the fanbase that just wants to see moves for the sake of moves. I don't think that's the right thought. But I do think that if the right deal comes along, everybody should be available. That doesn't mean shopping, but it does mean talking. I also think part of being transactional is being willing to admit a mistake, which I think the Royals have generally done well this year. The idea is to accumulate as much talent as you can, and if you're trending toward 72 wins next year but you can make a trade that you think can get you to consistently 85+ from 2025 on, you don't worry about making a 72-win a 65-win team. Either would look great right now, but neither are worth anything.
I want to push back on you saying the indicators are that Witt won't sign. There haven't been indicators either way. There's no way to know what he will or won't do because they haven't had serious enough talks yet. We'll have a much better grasp on that heading into the 2024 season, but I feel pretty strongly that his value doesn't change all that much between now and the 2025 trade deadline, so I don't think anything has to be done right this second.
As for Senzel, sure, take a flyer I guess, but he's not any good. I don't know what happened, but I would give him a shot and move fast.
Setting aside the question of what is the smart move in terms of team building, there is nearly zero chance the Royals trade Bobby Baseball before the stadium vote. In fact, I'm pretty confident they will announce an extension and/or make a splashy FA signing before the vote.
I've been saying for a long time that they're going to do something to garner fan support ahead of that vote. Making free agent signings or trades will help to improve the team on paper, but given the timing of so many of these extensions, getting Witt signed long-term in late March about a week ahead of a vote would probably do wonders.
So here is a weird one for you. With the Angels doing….whatever the heck it is doing over there. I know they are all free agents. But would it make any sense at all to claim Giolito just to get a jump start on seeing if he would sign in KC this offseason? Get him in, a few weeks to work with the staff etc, etc. I mean, I’d be interested if KC even if it is essentially nothing. It’s just a claim and a roster spot right?
Added to the legend? Comparing him to a list of mostly established pitchers, some of whom have been very good for a long time? After seven outings? So far, so good, but let’s not rename the Cy Young Award just yet.
It is hard to find good things to say about a 41-93 team with a lineup of replacement level or slightly above players (except BWJ) and not a single player on any top 100 prospect list, but so much focus on one pitcher who might turn out to be a top end starter avoids discussion about what it is going to take to turn a franchise around that has had two good seasons since 1985.
We all know from Greinke’s first stint that it takes more than an ace even to turn a team around. But it is also a start and something they didn’t have before. And look, if it turns out this group isn’t the one that is going to work. If you’re telling me you’ve turned Ragans into even a legit #2. You have Singer and Ragans to trade in the next few years that will bring back actual legit talent. If Ragans turns out to be a top of the rotation piece you can use him in 3 years like you used Greinke and try to restock. It is nothing but good things what Ragans is doing. Even if it ultimately just helps bring back more pieces down the road.
I wrote about Cole Ragans the day after Cole Ragans started. I don't think that's going to avoid the discussion that we've been having literally all season long.
I hope this doesn't come off as rude, but I don't know how many more times I can say that the Royals don't see him as a starter for many reasons that go beyond anything physical. I'd be very, very surprised if he ever starts another game again outside of as an opener.
In 10 years. Are we just going to call everyone by the standard “pitchers”? The Giants seem to have an opener every game anymore. Lol. Seems like starters may be becoming obsolete. Or will they just take up the name “bulk guy”? People can scoff, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility.
I think as long as teams are designating one pitcher to regularly throw four or five at a minimum, there will be designations. It does get tricky when looking at splits though.
Rude...thats funny David....you have to work a lot harder than that to cause me offense! The Royals management has been so wrong so many times that I really have trouble taking them seriously .... some times. But my eye test tells me this guy is not closer material and frankly he may not even be statter material...but I like his big arm and stuff....and I think that's where he may have success....just my opinion.
He may or may not be better served as a starter but I’m just telling you that the organization doesn’t see him that way at this time. That could always change but I sort of doubt it will.
Building blocks confirmed: Cole Ragans, Brady Singer, Bobby Witt, Vinnie Pasquantino (assuming health), Freddy Fermin, Maikel Garcia (I’m all in - keep him we have a speedy platinum glove defender at 3B or trade him for a mint).
Building blocks maybe: MJ Melendez, Kyle Isbel, Drew Waters, Alec Marsh, and Michael Massey.
Lifetime Achievement Awards - roster spots are there if they want them: Zack Greinke and Salvador Perez
What we need: 3/5 of a starting rotation, bullpen pieces, minor league pieces to supplement this “wave” (more like a fart ripple in the pond.
This team has some strong points, none of which is managing and coaching. Hopefully they won’t resign Grienke (what an embarrassment to his career), Perez should consider retiring also. Looks like Melendez resorted back to his old habits with his stance and swing. Bianca, Vazquez, Beatty, Taylor, Hearns (better pitching at the LLWS), should not see any action after the call-ups. Can’t keep referring to every move or decision that Quatraro and Sweeney make as an audition, analyzation, test, etc. this excuse has been used for them all year. No constancy will get you no quality, too many line up changes. Looking ahead, how do you keep both Vinnie and Pratto as long as Perez is still on the team. Give me Waters in CF and get an above average LF (Melendez doesn’t cut it) and RF with some power. Who will be the Sept call ups? Enjoy your column.
This is what a good GM does -- sign a guy with future value to another team that matters in the race, then flip him for something better for your team. Cole is definitely that dude, and hope with a full offseason here, he gets even stronger. Getting into the 7th every time would be amazing (especially with the current roster of relief arms)
Absolutely. It's what needs to happens a whole lot more.
I might be the biggest Ragans guy here. But even I’ve got to pump the breaks a little on the ace talk. I’m not saying he can’t be. But need to see a little bit of longevity with it and staying healthy. Honestly, the only thing that might stop it is injury as players don’t usually get healthy as they age. But to be on that list…..to me it means they have a legit starting pitcher. Ace, not ace, whatever. They have two solutions now. It’s a great list to be on. Those are all legitimate starting pitchers. Not just guys we are hoping on!
I'm not saying he's an ace. He's pitched like one though for sure and he's almost certainly the Royals ace at this point.
Well, I do think we get used to some things a little bit after watching a team struggle for years on end. For instance you watch Ragans pitch and it’s a revelation at how he is looking right now. And it is, 100% agree, but this is what a good starting pitcher looks like. A lot of teams have more than one of these guys in the same rotation. Some teams certainly don’t either….but find a way to trade with the Rangers more this offseason please.
This is what a good starting pitcher looks like, but also the list in there shows that it isn't especially common. I think it's okay to look at what he's doing as more than what a good starting pitcher does because, right now, it is more than that.
I think what I’m trying to say is after a couple years and 10 guys where we’ve said “could, might, if this pitch, etc, etc” its just nice to watch a guy shove and have a pretty good idea you are going to be in the game that day. 40% of the time I feel that way right now. If we can get the “could, might, etc” to just one spot in the rotation…we are a stop closer I guess.
I’m only restraining from saying he’s an ace by the way because I want to be pleasantly surprised and not mildly letdown. Managing expectations here. Lol.
I totally get it. It’s been a whole lot of disappointment for a long time.
Time will tell...
Damnit Greg HE’S AN ACE!.
Only thing that will stop him is injury. Chalk it up baby! Lol
I actually think, it’s probably the best thing that could have happened for JJ. If nobody else does a single thing out of this deadline. He found a way to get a frontline starter. I just want the evaluation to go the FO as well this year and hopefully we’ll see some of that this offseason. But it’s a big win and hopefully encourages him to continue dealing. If anything, we need to run through these guys a little faster.
I actually see a lot of McClanahan from Ragans. Not a bad comp to have at all.
So you’re saying they have a young superstar SS, and a hard throwing lefty at the top of the rotation……..hmmmm…..that sounds familiar……I mean, they are probably missing 20 other comps to the Rays right now (but I will go to my grave that MJ and Raley should be the same player if they use MJ right)….but…..maybe….getting closer? It’s an optimistic take to make for sure. But I’m optimistic the day after Ragans pitches.
I am less pessimistic about Cruz than most, I think. His fastball looked great early, but he just kept hanging the slider. I don't know a lot about him but I doubt he built that minor league K rate on middle-middle sliders. So I choose to believe it was nerves, and I am looking forward to his next couple appearances.
I mean, you give up four runs and can't get through an inning and there's going to be pessimism. I think it's silly to give up on him after one outing. He has legit stuff.
That's true. Maybe this season has driven me too far into "results don't matter, just look for progress"...
I am in on Ragans, though it is early days yet and we will have to see what happens when the league adjusts. I am also in on Cruz, bad outing notwithstanding. And I am NOT in favor of moving Singer. But there is a lot of dead weight on the pitching staff. Greinke has been flat-out embarrassing - I feel bad for him, I don't want my memories of him to be this season. Lyles should be gone. Keller should be gone, same with Kowar.
I do want to comment on "being transactional". I'm a fan of the Rays, and they have been hugely successful in being transactional. But they had a team with more talent to build around - we don't have that. Can we afford to be transactional yet? Can we afford to think about potentially flipping ANYONE while we are trying to build a core, much less a team? I don't know, I really don't. I am hugely torn on this; if we start being too transactional too soon, are we just another A's team? Always selling, never building?
But I will say this much, and pull on my asbestos suit:: We need to move Perez to Miami, and we need to move Bobby Witt Jr NOW if he will not extend with us, and the indicators so far seem to indicate that he won't. I also TRULY believe that the Royals need to look at some of the guys who are being cut now as targets for bounceback-season contracts while we continue to develop and flip them to contenders next year unless keeping them makes more sense. And a question - Nick Senzel looks as if he is on his way out the door in Cincinnati. Is he worth a look?
Thank you, David. I enjoy your writing a lot!!
How the league adjusts will be huge for him. I do think there was at least some adjustment from the A's game to last night, which was what was even more encouraging for me, but there's still plenty of time and games to see how teams do when he sees them a second time, though I'm not sure if he'll have a chance to see a team twice. It looks like maybe Houston? Which, that's a pretty big test with their offense, so I'm actually hoping we do see it.
On the subject of being transactional, I think there is a faction of the fanbase that just wants to see moves for the sake of moves. I don't think that's the right thought. But I do think that if the right deal comes along, everybody should be available. That doesn't mean shopping, but it does mean talking. I also think part of being transactional is being willing to admit a mistake, which I think the Royals have generally done well this year. The idea is to accumulate as much talent as you can, and if you're trending toward 72 wins next year but you can make a trade that you think can get you to consistently 85+ from 2025 on, you don't worry about making a 72-win a 65-win team. Either would look great right now, but neither are worth anything.
I want to push back on you saying the indicators are that Witt won't sign. There haven't been indicators either way. There's no way to know what he will or won't do because they haven't had serious enough talks yet. We'll have a much better grasp on that heading into the 2024 season, but I feel pretty strongly that his value doesn't change all that much between now and the 2025 trade deadline, so I don't think anything has to be done right this second.
As for Senzel, sure, take a flyer I guess, but he's not any good. I don't know what happened, but I would give him a shot and move fast.
Setting aside the question of what is the smart move in terms of team building, there is nearly zero chance the Royals trade Bobby Baseball before the stadium vote. In fact, I'm pretty confident they will announce an extension and/or make a splashy FA signing before the vote.
I've been saying for a long time that they're going to do something to garner fan support ahead of that vote. Making free agent signings or trades will help to improve the team on paper, but given the timing of so many of these extensions, getting Witt signed long-term in late March about a week ahead of a vote would probably do wonders.
So here is a weird one for you. With the Angels doing….whatever the heck it is doing over there. I know they are all free agents. But would it make any sense at all to claim Giolito just to get a jump start on seeing if he would sign in KC this offseason? Get him in, a few weeks to work with the staff etc, etc. I mean, I’d be interested if KC even if it is essentially nothing. It’s just a claim and a roster spot right?
I mentioned that yesterday on Twitter. Not necessarily for the Royals, but obviously thinking through a Royals lens. Absolutely, though. Take a flyer.
Added to the legend? Comparing him to a list of mostly established pitchers, some of whom have been very good for a long time? After seven outings? So far, so good, but let’s not rename the Cy Young Award just yet.
It is hard to find good things to say about a 41-93 team with a lineup of replacement level or slightly above players (except BWJ) and not a single player on any top 100 prospect list, but so much focus on one pitcher who might turn out to be a top end starter avoids discussion about what it is going to take to turn a franchise around that has had two good seasons since 1985.
We all know from Greinke’s first stint that it takes more than an ace even to turn a team around. But it is also a start and something they didn’t have before. And look, if it turns out this group isn’t the one that is going to work. If you’re telling me you’ve turned Ragans into even a legit #2. You have Singer and Ragans to trade in the next few years that will bring back actual legit talent. If Ragans turns out to be a top of the rotation piece you can use him in 3 years like you used Greinke and try to restock. It is nothing but good things what Ragans is doing. Even if it ultimately just helps bring back more pieces down the road.
I wrote about Cole Ragans the day after Cole Ragans started. I don't think that's going to avoid the discussion that we've been having literally all season long.
On Hernandez....I still think his future is as a starter....hopefully he comes to camp in shape and gets that opportunity.
I hope this doesn't come off as rude, but I don't know how many more times I can say that the Royals don't see him as a starter for many reasons that go beyond anything physical. I'd be very, very surprised if he ever starts another game again outside of as an opener.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if they thought he could do the job they'd be giving him a shot. It's not like we're loaded for bear in the rotation.
In 10 years. Are we just going to call everyone by the standard “pitchers”? The Giants seem to have an opener every game anymore. Lol. Seems like starters may be becoming obsolete. Or will they just take up the name “bulk guy”? People can scoff, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility.
I think as long as teams are designating one pitcher to regularly throw four or five at a minimum, there will be designations. It does get tricky when looking at splits though.
Rude...thats funny David....you have to work a lot harder than that to cause me offense! The Royals management has been so wrong so many times that I really have trouble taking them seriously .... some times. But my eye test tells me this guy is not closer material and frankly he may not even be statter material...but I like his big arm and stuff....and I think that's where he may have success....just my opinion.
He may or may not be better served as a starter but I’m just telling you that the organization doesn’t see him that way at this time. That could always change but I sort of doubt it will.
McMillion forearm strain. That……..doesn’t sound promising. Aye.
THEY ARE BECOMING THE RAYS!
Ok, so those of us counting at home.
Building blocks confirmed: Cole Ragans, Brady Singer, Bobby Witt, Vinnie Pasquantino (assuming health), Freddy Fermin, Maikel Garcia (I’m all in - keep him we have a speedy platinum glove defender at 3B or trade him for a mint).
Building blocks maybe: MJ Melendez, Kyle Isbel, Drew Waters, Alec Marsh, and Michael Massey.
Lifetime Achievement Awards - roster spots are there if they want them: Zack Greinke and Salvador Perez
What we need: 3/5 of a starting rotation, bullpen pieces, minor league pieces to supplement this “wave” (more like a fart ripple in the pond.