It will be an interesting day today. I’m a little torn today actually. One on hand I’m a fan and still paid much more attention to the team than I should have the last month or so. On the other hand……if they don’t move Merrifield today…..I don’t want to say I’m done with them this year….but I’m close. If you honestly don’t trade one of your “clubhouse leader” who has willingly said he will do everything he can for another team but not your…...and then basically doubled down on it. What exactly are we doing here? It’s not trying to build a winner or setting a tone. I’m frustrated he wasn’t gone a week ago. I’m frustrated he isn’t gone already. Addition by subtraction is a real thing in a clubhouse. The only thing I want to see today is him gone. If you don’t trade Barlow, Taylor, etc….ok. But you have to move Merrifield. And I know the Royals don’t care about me but if they don’t move him they are sending a terrible message. It’s been discussed before. But that’s my rant today.
I still think he moves, but I also don't think you *have* to move him. I say that with the knowledge that if he's actually lost the rest of the clubhouse, sure, but every indication is that he's made things right with them. Is it a bad look to fans? Sure. I will think they're wrong for not trading him if they don't regardless of the return for a number of reasons, but I don't think it sends a message to the team IF they've worked things out. Maybe I'm getting information from the wrong places, but it seems like he's gotten his teammates back in his corner, which is the most important part if he's going to still be on the team. But yes, they should trade him.
I know what you are saying. But as a fan…why should I spend money or time on a team that doesn’t even care if there own players quit on them or not? You know.
It’s just frustration. It’s a moot point until tomorrow anyway. Hopefully they do the right thing. Yesterday was fun. Get the feeling I’ll be checking mlbtraderumors all day again today and should be fun.
I get what you're saying, and that's why I totally understand it from a fan perspective. This is probably unpopular, but I don't think the Royals should worry about the fans when making moves. That sounds bad, but the reality is that their job is to put a team on the field that wins games. They haven't done that and they've rarely done that in their tenure so there's every reason to be skeptical but if they trade Merrifield and win next year because of the trade, it's great. If they don't trade Merrifield and win next year with him, it's great.
In my opinion, no move should ever be made because the fans didn't like something that was done or said. So that brings me back to the team issue. If they're good with him and they don't get an offer that's worth his value (and he's been generally solid since early June), then I'm not sure they'd be wrong to keep him. But, as Soren Petro always says, they're in the get it right business, so they better be right about it.
As we all wait to see what, if anything, the Royals may do today. I must admit I don't have much faith in what the results may be. Trading for support players or organizational depth, does nothing to really improve the team. Mostly just more treading water. Where are the direction changing trades? The type of trades that bring back potent players you plan to bank on in future. Are we really to believe we already have our team that we will depend on in the future here or in the minors? The continuing PR that we are almost there, falls flat with the reality of a bottom of the league team in almost every way to measure. Even if the trades seem different than under Dayton, I don't expect much by the end of the day.
Here's my question to you. Who could they trade who will bring back a direction changing player? My answers to that question are Bobby Witt Jr., MJ Melendez, Vinnie Pasquantino and Nick Pratto. You may also include Salvador Perez, but I don't think I would. There's just too much money owed for a catcher on the wrong side of 30 who swings at everything. He's valuable and he has obviously insane power, but he's not bringing back a haul right now. They might move one of the non-Witt three, but I doubt it would be at the deadline. That's much more of an offseason deal.
Of the other potential trade pieces, Scott Barlow could bring back a fair amount given what we saw relievers fetch yesterday. So he could be the closest thing outside of the rest of their players, but the best players are the players expected to be on the next good team, so I'm not sure how they'd make that move without disrupting the future they already have with those guys.
Fair enough. The original Greinke trade is a good example. Letting go of MJ for a quality starter or top prospect in a position of need would make sense. Including Pratto with some of the above mentioned names could also loosen things up. It takes quality to get quality. I like both players but we have other options at first and catcher. It will hurt, but getting someone else's Whitt is going to cost something to get. What we seem to have a hard time finding is above average outfielders and pitching. Coaching aside. But that's another subject.
And I do think they could make that move, but their issue as a seller right now is they don't have especially great veteran pieces. Sellers generally trade players who are a couple years away from free agency at the most. And, like I said, the Royals best players and assets are under team control through 2027 at the earliest and most are through 2028. So I think that move could come, but it's likely more the timing of the Greinke deal or the Shields/Davis deal this winter. You just don't see sellers trading young big leaguers very often.
True. I just don't see this organization doing much now or even in the off season. Other than the above mentioned trades and our championship runs, they haven't made a bold move since in my opinion. Maybe Dayton moving upstairs will change things, but I just don't sense it from what I am seeing or hearing from team leaders.
I mean, sure, that makes sense. History has indicated that it won’t happen. But I’m not sure of anything they’ve said that would indicate they won’t do something. In fact, I think their steadfast belief that they’re closer than most people believe indicates they WILL do something. And people will probably hate it unless it works.
It's early enough in the "rebuild" (optimistically assuming that's what's going on) that they don't yet HAVE to make the proverbial "trade that hurts." They could actually be jumping the gun if they do that right now. They need to evaluate their pitchers AFTER Eldred and the other pitching coaches/developers have been replaced.
What could competent coaches do for the pitching staff? Maybe a lot, maybe a little, maybe nothing at all. No way to know. And while all of us, including me, are optimistic about many of the young position players, it's way too soon to draw any firm conclusions about what they have in those guys.
Nobody wants to see them be "more transactional" more than I do. I just don't think the time for that really big "roll of the dice trade" has come yet. It's just too soon to know what their needs really will be if/when they're a contender again.
FWIW I'm almost always the eternal skeptic. But right now I feel a lot of optimism about their young position players, both in the field and in the batter's box. I'd like to see Massey back up here but that's not crucial right now. Sure, there are still a couple of holes to fill but when is that ever NOT the case in MLB?
As far as the pitching - well, it's nice to see some of the younger guys making progress, apparently with little help from the coaches and developers. But truthfully I don't expect much significant progress there until Eldred and numerous others are gone. Although Singer and Bubic (and maybe Lynch?) seem to be in the process of proving me wrong on that. That could be a mirage or it could be reality. Too soon to say.
I still remember when Weaver was one of the centerpieces of the Goldschmidt deal. I think my thoughts on the swap of those two players are that it doesn't make a ton of sense in a vacuum, but could very well make sense if they have other moves planned.
My theory is that it's insurance for a Keller deal that could go down today. The fact that Keller got moved to starting today is telling to me. It doesn't mean they will trade him, but it means they actually might. And if he's gone, they see Weaver as someone who can potentially step into his spot in the rotation and probably for a bit less money.
I think either could, but MJ makes more sense. Pratto is such a good defender at first that he should be there most every day. But with a roster that includes those two plus Pasquantino and Salvy, there’ll be days he needs to play outfield which I’m fine with.
Dayton is still running the team, so I don't expect anything of note.
I would just be happy if they could trade radio stations and get a broadcast without the annoying whistle. While I'm dreaming, I would trade Mondesi to move up in the rule 5 draft. Moving any player will give them a chance to play for a contender, that's a good thing.
2 quick comments real quick here. 1 I am afraid the Royals are over valuing our trade chips. I hope I am wrong, but I think the FO is asking more than teams are willing to pay. 2 The Royals are crazy if they play Pratto anywhere but 1B, and they are crazy to play anyone but Pratto at 1B. I know that presents a problem for Vinny, but he is going to have to be happy at full time DH. That play he made last night in the 7th was crazy good.
Here's the problem with that. Vinnie can't play anywhere but first. If you want Salvy to DH when he doesn't catch, you have MJ catching. If you want Vinnie in the lineup still, he has to play first. Which means if you want Pratto in the lineup still, he has to play outfield. The only way to get all four bats in the lineup is for one of Pratto or MJ to play outfield. So in those scenarios where Salvy is the DH, it's going to have to be Pratto.
David - I recall hearing that throwing the knuckle-curve was the likely reason for Lynch's blister problems. And developing a new way to throw a curve doesn't just happen overnight so my assumption is that he's still throwing it. Do you have any insight as to what they've done or are doing to keep those blisters at bay for Daniel?
Holy cow I didn't know that! It makes his performance last night even more impressive, considering that he essentially did it without a presumably important piece of his repertoire.
Maybe he's the anti-Singer, a guy who would benefit from having fewer pitches rather than more.
Interesting... Given the large differences in ERA+ and WHIP and K:BB ratio I figured you'd probably be more optimistic about Misiewicz than Weaver. Shows what I know. Of course the numbers are important, but they never tell the whole story, do they?
Color me surprised: Dayton actually approved a trade of one of his "our guys," Cam Gallagher. Whit, OTOH, doesn't seem to ever have been one of his "our guys." (Remember all the resistance he got from Dayton and Ned even after he'd proven he belonged in the big leagues?) So I'm not at all surprised that Whit was dealt. I've never gotten the sense that he had the "intangibles" that Dayton overvalues so much, but faithdrivenathlete.org claims otherwise, so I could easily be completely wrong about that.
For a guy with only 21 MLB IP, Max Castillo looks promising, at least on paper. 20 K's vs 5 BB with a WHIP of 0.968 is a nice way to start a big league career. 6.5 hits per 9 IP will work, too. 4 HR in 20 IP is slightly concerning, but the sample size is way too small to draw any conclusions.
His minor-league numbers are a little less attention-grabbing but still decent: 517 IP, 8.2 K's per 9 IP, 1.247 WHIP.
Not really sure how you can say the player they literally refused to trade for years isn’t one of their guys. They also reworked his contract to guarantee him money next season when they didn’t have to.
It's admittedly subjective and hard to describe. I just never got the feeling that he was part of that inner clique of favored players, and I'm not certain that he really wanted to be.
When I heard Dayton talk about guys like Hosmer and Escobar and Gordon and Moose and Perez (among others) it seemed to me that you could pretty much hear and feel the love in his voice and word choices. I've never perceived the slightest hint of that when he spoke of Whit.
It will be an interesting day today. I’m a little torn today actually. One on hand I’m a fan and still paid much more attention to the team than I should have the last month or so. On the other hand……if they don’t move Merrifield today…..I don’t want to say I’m done with them this year….but I’m close. If you honestly don’t trade one of your “clubhouse leader” who has willingly said he will do everything he can for another team but not your…...and then basically doubled down on it. What exactly are we doing here? It’s not trying to build a winner or setting a tone. I’m frustrated he wasn’t gone a week ago. I’m frustrated he isn’t gone already. Addition by subtraction is a real thing in a clubhouse. The only thing I want to see today is him gone. If you don’t trade Barlow, Taylor, etc….ok. But you have to move Merrifield. And I know the Royals don’t care about me but if they don’t move him they are sending a terrible message. It’s been discussed before. But that’s my rant today.
I still think he moves, but I also don't think you *have* to move him. I say that with the knowledge that if he's actually lost the rest of the clubhouse, sure, but every indication is that he's made things right with them. Is it a bad look to fans? Sure. I will think they're wrong for not trading him if they don't regardless of the return for a number of reasons, but I don't think it sends a message to the team IF they've worked things out. Maybe I'm getting information from the wrong places, but it seems like he's gotten his teammates back in his corner, which is the most important part if he's going to still be on the team. But yes, they should trade him.
I know what you are saying. But as a fan…why should I spend money or time on a team that doesn’t even care if there own players quit on them or not? You know.
It’s just frustration. It’s a moot point until tomorrow anyway. Hopefully they do the right thing. Yesterday was fun. Get the feeling I’ll be checking mlbtraderumors all day again today and should be fun.
I get what you're saying, and that's why I totally understand it from a fan perspective. This is probably unpopular, but I don't think the Royals should worry about the fans when making moves. That sounds bad, but the reality is that their job is to put a team on the field that wins games. They haven't done that and they've rarely done that in their tenure so there's every reason to be skeptical but if they trade Merrifield and win next year because of the trade, it's great. If they don't trade Merrifield and win next year with him, it's great.
In my opinion, no move should ever be made because the fans didn't like something that was done or said. So that brings me back to the team issue. If they're good with him and they don't get an offer that's worth his value (and he's been generally solid since early June), then I'm not sure they'd be wrong to keep him. But, as Soren Petro always says, they're in the get it right business, so they better be right about it.
As we all wait to see what, if anything, the Royals may do today. I must admit I don't have much faith in what the results may be. Trading for support players or organizational depth, does nothing to really improve the team. Mostly just more treading water. Where are the direction changing trades? The type of trades that bring back potent players you plan to bank on in future. Are we really to believe we already have our team that we will depend on in the future here or in the minors? The continuing PR that we are almost there, falls flat with the reality of a bottom of the league team in almost every way to measure. Even if the trades seem different than under Dayton, I don't expect much by the end of the day.
Here's my question to you. Who could they trade who will bring back a direction changing player? My answers to that question are Bobby Witt Jr., MJ Melendez, Vinnie Pasquantino and Nick Pratto. You may also include Salvador Perez, but I don't think I would. There's just too much money owed for a catcher on the wrong side of 30 who swings at everything. He's valuable and he has obviously insane power, but he's not bringing back a haul right now. They might move one of the non-Witt three, but I doubt it would be at the deadline. That's much more of an offseason deal.
Of the other potential trade pieces, Scott Barlow could bring back a fair amount given what we saw relievers fetch yesterday. So he could be the closest thing outside of the rest of their players, but the best players are the players expected to be on the next good team, so I'm not sure how they'd make that move without disrupting the future they already have with those guys.
Fair enough. The original Greinke trade is a good example. Letting go of MJ for a quality starter or top prospect in a position of need would make sense. Including Pratto with some of the above mentioned names could also loosen things up. It takes quality to get quality. I like both players but we have other options at first and catcher. It will hurt, but getting someone else's Whitt is going to cost something to get. What we seem to have a hard time finding is above average outfielders and pitching. Coaching aside. But that's another subject.
And I do think they could make that move, but their issue as a seller right now is they don't have especially great veteran pieces. Sellers generally trade players who are a couple years away from free agency at the most. And, like I said, the Royals best players and assets are under team control through 2027 at the earliest and most are through 2028. So I think that move could come, but it's likely more the timing of the Greinke deal or the Shields/Davis deal this winter. You just don't see sellers trading young big leaguers very often.
True. I just don't see this organization doing much now or even in the off season. Other than the above mentioned trades and our championship runs, they haven't made a bold move since in my opinion. Maybe Dayton moving upstairs will change things, but I just don't sense it from what I am seeing or hearing from team leaders.
I mean, sure, that makes sense. History has indicated that it won’t happen. But I’m not sure of anything they’ve said that would indicate they won’t do something. In fact, I think their steadfast belief that they’re closer than most people believe indicates they WILL do something. And people will probably hate it unless it works.
I hope your right. Thanks I enjoy your insightful writing.
It's early enough in the "rebuild" (optimistically assuming that's what's going on) that they don't yet HAVE to make the proverbial "trade that hurts." They could actually be jumping the gun if they do that right now. They need to evaluate their pitchers AFTER Eldred and the other pitching coaches/developers have been replaced.
What could competent coaches do for the pitching staff? Maybe a lot, maybe a little, maybe nothing at all. No way to know. And while all of us, including me, are optimistic about many of the young position players, it's way too soon to draw any firm conclusions about what they have in those guys.
Nobody wants to see them be "more transactional" more than I do. I just don't think the time for that really big "roll of the dice trade" has come yet. It's just too soon to know what their needs really will be if/when they're a contender again.
FWIW I'm almost always the eternal skeptic. But right now I feel a lot of optimism about their young position players, both in the field and in the batter's box. I'd like to see Massey back up here but that's not crucial right now. Sure, there are still a couple of holes to fill but when is that ever NOT the case in MLB?
As far as the pitching - well, it's nice to see some of the younger guys making progress, apparently with little help from the coaches and developers. But truthfully I don't expect much significant progress there until Eldred and numerous others are gone. Although Singer and Bubic (and maybe Lynch?) seem to be in the process of proving me wrong on that. That could be a mirage or it could be reality. Too soon to say.
I still remember when Weaver was one of the centerpieces of the Goldschmidt deal. I think my thoughts on the swap of those two players are that it doesn't make a ton of sense in a vacuum, but could very well make sense if they have other moves planned.
My theory is that it's insurance for a Keller deal that could go down today. The fact that Keller got moved to starting today is telling to me. It doesn't mean they will trade him, but it means they actually might. And if he's gone, they see Weaver as someone who can potentially step into his spot in the rotation and probably for a bit less money.
David - between MJ and Pratto which one has a better chance of becoming at least a competent MLB- average outfielder defensively?
I think either could, but MJ makes more sense. Pratto is such a good defender at first that he should be there most every day. But with a roster that includes those two plus Pasquantino and Salvy, there’ll be days he needs to play outfield which I’m fine with.
Dayton is still running the team, so I don't expect anything of note.
I would just be happy if they could trade radio stations and get a broadcast without the annoying whistle. While I'm dreaming, I would trade Mondesi to move up in the rule 5 draft. Moving any player will give them a chance to play for a contender, that's a good thing.
Nobody is trading for a player who won't take the field this year and might be non-tendered in November. And you can't trade up in the Rule 5 draft.
2 quick comments real quick here. 1 I am afraid the Royals are over valuing our trade chips. I hope I am wrong, but I think the FO is asking more than teams are willing to pay. 2 The Royals are crazy if they play Pratto anywhere but 1B, and they are crazy to play anyone but Pratto at 1B. I know that presents a problem for Vinny, but he is going to have to be happy at full time DH. That play he made last night in the 7th was crazy good.
Here's the problem with that. Vinnie can't play anywhere but first. If you want Salvy to DH when he doesn't catch, you have MJ catching. If you want Vinnie in the lineup still, he has to play first. Which means if you want Pratto in the lineup still, he has to play outfield. The only way to get all four bats in the lineup is for one of Pratto or MJ to play outfield. So in those scenarios where Salvy is the DH, it's going to have to be Pratto.
David - I recall hearing that throwing the knuckle-curve was the likely reason for Lynch's blister problems. And developing a new way to throw a curve doesn't just happen overnight so my assumption is that he's still throwing it. Do you have any insight as to what they've done or are doing to keep those blisters at bay for Daniel?
Nope, haven't heard anything. But he only threw two last night. So it might be as simple as not throwing it.
Holy cow I didn't know that! It makes his performance last night even more impressive, considering that he essentially did it without a presumably important piece of his repertoire.
Maybe he's the anti-Singer, a guy who would benefit from having fewer pitches rather than more.
He hadn't thrown that many this year anyway. He's almost all fastball, slider, changeup these days. Only had 48 curves before last night all season.
Interesting... Given the large differences in ERA+ and WHIP and K:BB ratio I figured you'd probably be more optimistic about Misiewicz than Weaver. Shows what I know. Of course the numbers are important, but they never tell the whole story, do they?
Color me surprised: Dayton actually approved a trade of one of his "our guys," Cam Gallagher. Whit, OTOH, doesn't seem to ever have been one of his "our guys." (Remember all the resistance he got from Dayton and Ned even after he'd proven he belonged in the big leagues?) So I'm not at all surprised that Whit was dealt. I've never gotten the sense that he had the "intangibles" that Dayton overvalues so much, but faithdrivenathlete.org claims otherwise, so I could easily be completely wrong about that.
For a guy with only 21 MLB IP, Max Castillo looks promising, at least on paper. 20 K's vs 5 BB with a WHIP of 0.968 is a nice way to start a big league career. 6.5 hits per 9 IP will work, too. 4 HR in 20 IP is slightly concerning, but the sample size is way too small to draw any conclusions.
His minor-league numbers are a little less attention-grabbing but still decent: 517 IP, 8.2 K's per 9 IP, 1.247 WHIP.
Not really sure how you can say the player they literally refused to trade for years isn’t one of their guys. They also reworked his contract to guarantee him money next season when they didn’t have to.
It's admittedly subjective and hard to describe. I just never got the feeling that he was part of that inner clique of favored players, and I'm not certain that he really wanted to be.
When I heard Dayton talk about guys like Hosmer and Escobar and Gordon and Moose and Perez (among others) it seemed to me that you could pretty much hear and feel the love in his voice and word choices. I've never perceived the slightest hint of that when he spoke of Whit.
As I said, it's quite subjective.
Yeah I don’t think there’s any doubt that Whit has always been one of his guys.