I agree there are things to be positive about with Garcia. I think the question has just always been for me…..is he more of a middle infielder? To me it is a resounding yes. And that’s ok. So then the simple question becomes…is this team better with one of two scenarios:
1. Move him as a SS to a team that can give you equal value back and also see’s these underlying metrics. Marlins are still the dream scenario.
2. Move Massey and have Garcia play second and a middle infield of Garcia/BWJ.
I totally understand the fact that they don’t have a third baseman to put there so Garcia is for now. That’s fine, but it’s also a bit of a leaking value situation. It works for now, but long term he is more of a middle infielder. I get that if you have the offensive number BWJ gives you…you can certainly play with Garcia at third. But it is also one of those situations that I don’t think you stop looking for an upgrade. Cause if you can have another really solid hitter at third with BWJ…that’s elite.
I don’t think there is a wrong answer. Really just waiting on the FO to move someone at the top half of there value…..Show me you know your players better than other teams kind of deal. That and developing talent are really the two things left to see.
I think the idea that Garcia is this position or that is a little misguided. It’s where he’s the most valuable to the Royals and if third base for the Royals is where he’s most valuable to them, that’s fine with me. So many people are hung up on a third baseman having to do this or that and I think the sum is what matters more. It’s not like there are a ton of 25-homer third basemen readily available and I see an infield that could easily hit 90 homers total in 2024.
But where I agree with you is going back to what’s best for the Royals. And if, say, the Marlins are willing to offer Jesus Luzardo because they want him at shortstop, I think the Royals are better with Luzardo pitching every fifth day and Nick Loftin at third. But if that offer isn’t there, then Garcia at third, right now, is what’s best for the Royals.
I know you want to see them do something, but it often feels that you want these things just for the sake of saying they did them. They appear to actually have a plan and I’d rather they don’t move a guy just to show they’re willing to do it. But if the deal is there, absolutely. I’ve asked around and the deal doesn’t appear to be there just yet. It might eventually but not right now.
Oh, I want them to do something they don’t have to do if that makes sense. Everyone they moved at the deadline…pretty much guaranteed they were going to move them. Going to have major issues if Chapman wasn’t moved. Now, they identified the talent and worked with it. Major props for that. Don’t get me wrong, they made the moves they needed to make and they get credit for that. But now we are to the making a move you didn’t have to make stage for me. And yes, if the deal isn’t there nothing you can do. For instance, I don’t know if was the Royals or Miami who have leaked the Salvy “almost” trade or the Luzardo potential trade for Vinny. But I also don’t care about almost trades. You don’t get credit for almost trades and one of those teams are clearly looking for that with the media. Lol.
So they don’t have to move MJ, Salvy, Vinny, or anyone yet really. But that’s the stage we are at to make this team fit better. So, yeah, I still want to see something done. But 100% agree with you if nothing is there it’s better not to make it. Is it nothing is there or we are still a little scared to make it? IDK, probably nothing is there….but there is always that little doubt when its the same guys for so long. But overall it’s been better than the DM last few years for sure. Now just need more wins.
I can promise you that they would move anyone on the roster other than Bobby (right now) in the right deal. I think the Vinnie for Luzardo rumor is probably pretty close to the right deal given how easy it would be to say you’d prefer either player, but I’d bet that they’d move Garcia for him in a heartbeat, for example.
What I really like about the Vinnie for Luzardo talk. This is what gets me excited as a fan. I have no problem with the Royals decision to keep Vinny. But now I have something to compare right? Love Vinnie, you made the internal decision he is better than Luzardo for this team great. But now, he better hit as a first baseman and stay relatively injury free. Or maybe Luzardo sucks the next year and gets hurt. Either way, it’s a fun comparison with some results behind it. Right, wrong, or indifferent.
And I’m sure what happened with the Luzardo talk is this - Miami wanted Vinny…royals said no. But we’ll give you Garcia, MJ, and Singer for Luzardo. Miami was probably like well, if we are moving a #2 starter….we may not love all those pieces, let’s see what the rest of the league will do. And so here they are yet just kind of in a waiting game. They matchup up pretty well. I think Salvy is a no go anymore but everyone else…for a pitcher…still alive.
So here is a question for ya David. If Massey wasn’t on the team. Garcia would be the starting 2nd baseman right? And we’d all be pretty excited about it. I guess, what I’m saying is are we sure he isn’t the best second baseman on the team? I’m not 100% sold on Garcia, but I’m not sold on Massey at this point either. There isn’t any talk of Garcia at second. But I’m sure that’s more just about having no real option at third. I’m just not sure they lose a lot either with it being Loftin, BWJ, Garcia, and Vinny. But if you are gonna trade, trade from value standpoint.
Agree, but I'd like to see a BW2 extension first before moving either Massey or Garcia. Because if you can't get one done you should move him when you can get the most for him.
I will say that there isn’t a whole lot of evidence that shows much difference in return value between now and the deadline in a couple of years when there are three pennant races left on his team control so if they can’t get it done (and I still feel confident they will), it’s not a move that needs to be made quickly.
I’d love it if guys in the minors are forcing their hand every year. Hopefully that pipeline is starting, but it hasn’t been good enough for a long time.
Edit: I’m dumb. You’re saying that you hope BWJ signs an extension so it doesn’t matter. Duh. Yes, 100%.
Idk, if a no slug guy can ever sustain +50 points of obp above his average. Nicky did it, but just for one year. I don't think pitchers are scared away from the heart of the plate by singles. Not much anyway.
That said I like Garcia. Would love for him to take that next step for us. I just love watching my team play good defense and it's important if we're going to need to keep signing veteran pitchers to short term prove-it deals.
Part of the lack of slug is not taking advantage of those middle middle pitches enough. It’s not a guarantee but if he’s more aggressive in the zone with his ability to hit the ball hard, I assume more doubles would come and his ability to steal a base makes a single at least a threat to become a double too.
He is a shortstop but we pigeon hole him into a “sluggers” position at third, and then, are disappointed that he doesn’t hit 30 HRs. If Jr’s at third and Garcia at ss, then we are raving about our power hitting 3rd baseman and our above average offensive ss. (Both being excellent defensive players) how about CF for Garcia, with his arm and speed? Those offensive numbers would look really good then.
I’ve long been against looking at position and position only because of what you’re saying. As for CF, they tried it briefly in spring and then went away from it for whatever reason. That said, he had a wRC+ of 84. The position doesn’t matter. That isn’t considered really good anywhere.
I agree there are things to be positive about with Garcia. I think the question has just always been for me…..is he more of a middle infielder? To me it is a resounding yes. And that’s ok. So then the simple question becomes…is this team better with one of two scenarios:
1. Move him as a SS to a team that can give you equal value back and also see’s these underlying metrics. Marlins are still the dream scenario.
2. Move Massey and have Garcia play second and a middle infield of Garcia/BWJ.
I totally understand the fact that they don’t have a third baseman to put there so Garcia is for now. That’s fine, but it’s also a bit of a leaking value situation. It works for now, but long term he is more of a middle infielder. I get that if you have the offensive number BWJ gives you…you can certainly play with Garcia at third. But it is also one of those situations that I don’t think you stop looking for an upgrade. Cause if you can have another really solid hitter at third with BWJ…that’s elite.
I don’t think there is a wrong answer. Really just waiting on the FO to move someone at the top half of there value…..Show me you know your players better than other teams kind of deal. That and developing talent are really the two things left to see.
I think the idea that Garcia is this position or that is a little misguided. It’s where he’s the most valuable to the Royals and if third base for the Royals is where he’s most valuable to them, that’s fine with me. So many people are hung up on a third baseman having to do this or that and I think the sum is what matters more. It’s not like there are a ton of 25-homer third basemen readily available and I see an infield that could easily hit 90 homers total in 2024.
But where I agree with you is going back to what’s best for the Royals. And if, say, the Marlins are willing to offer Jesus Luzardo because they want him at shortstop, I think the Royals are better with Luzardo pitching every fifth day and Nick Loftin at third. But if that offer isn’t there, then Garcia at third, right now, is what’s best for the Royals.
I know you want to see them do something, but it often feels that you want these things just for the sake of saying they did them. They appear to actually have a plan and I’d rather they don’t move a guy just to show they’re willing to do it. But if the deal is there, absolutely. I’ve asked around and the deal doesn’t appear to be there just yet. It might eventually but not right now.
Oh, I want them to do something they don’t have to do if that makes sense. Everyone they moved at the deadline…pretty much guaranteed they were going to move them. Going to have major issues if Chapman wasn’t moved. Now, they identified the talent and worked with it. Major props for that. Don’t get me wrong, they made the moves they needed to make and they get credit for that. But now we are to the making a move you didn’t have to make stage for me. And yes, if the deal isn’t there nothing you can do. For instance, I don’t know if was the Royals or Miami who have leaked the Salvy “almost” trade or the Luzardo potential trade for Vinny. But I also don’t care about almost trades. You don’t get credit for almost trades and one of those teams are clearly looking for that with the media. Lol.
So they don’t have to move MJ, Salvy, Vinny, or anyone yet really. But that’s the stage we are at to make this team fit better. So, yeah, I still want to see something done. But 100% agree with you if nothing is there it’s better not to make it. Is it nothing is there or we are still a little scared to make it? IDK, probably nothing is there….but there is always that little doubt when its the same guys for so long. But overall it’s been better than the DM last few years for sure. Now just need more wins.
I can promise you that they would move anyone on the roster other than Bobby (right now) in the right deal. I think the Vinnie for Luzardo rumor is probably pretty close to the right deal given how easy it would be to say you’d prefer either player, but I’d bet that they’d move Garcia for him in a heartbeat, for example.
What I really like about the Vinnie for Luzardo talk. This is what gets me excited as a fan. I have no problem with the Royals decision to keep Vinny. But now I have something to compare right? Love Vinnie, you made the internal decision he is better than Luzardo for this team great. But now, he better hit as a first baseman and stay relatively injury free. Or maybe Luzardo sucks the next year and gets hurt. Either way, it’s a fun comparison with some results behind it. Right, wrong, or indifferent.
And I’m sure what happened with the Luzardo talk is this - Miami wanted Vinny…royals said no. But we’ll give you Garcia, MJ, and Singer for Luzardo. Miami was probably like well, if we are moving a #2 starter….we may not love all those pieces, let’s see what the rest of the league will do. And so here they are yet just kind of in a waiting game. They matchup up pretty well. I think Salvy is a no go anymore but everyone else…for a pitcher…still alive.
I don’t know that they offered that in return, but I agree they didn’t just move on after one offer wasn’t agreed to.
So here is a question for ya David. If Massey wasn’t on the team. Garcia would be the starting 2nd baseman right? And we’d all be pretty excited about it. I guess, what I’m saying is are we sure he isn’t the best second baseman on the team? I’m not 100% sold on Garcia, but I’m not sold on Massey at this point either. There isn’t any talk of Garcia at second. But I’m sure that’s more just about having no real option at third. I’m just not sure they lose a lot either with it being Loftin, BWJ, Garcia, and Vinny. But if you are gonna trade, trade from value standpoint.
Agree, but I'd like to see a BW2 extension first before moving either Massey or Garcia. Because if you can't get one done you should move him when you can get the most for him.
I will say that there isn’t a whole lot of evidence that shows much difference in return value between now and the deadline in a couple of years when there are three pennant races left on his team control so if they can’t get it done (and I still feel confident they will), it’s not a move that needs to be made quickly.
Good point. I guess I'd be inclined to keep them all until someone in the minors forces one of them out. But I hope it won't come to that.
I’d love it if guys in the minors are forcing their hand every year. Hopefully that pipeline is starting, but it hasn’t been good enough for a long time.
Edit: I’m dumb. You’re saying that you hope BWJ signs an extension so it doesn’t matter. Duh. Yes, 100%.
Idk, if a no slug guy can ever sustain +50 points of obp above his average. Nicky did it, but just for one year. I don't think pitchers are scared away from the heart of the plate by singles. Not much anyway.
That said I like Garcia. Would love for him to take that next step for us. I just love watching my team play good defense and it's important if we're going to need to keep signing veteran pitchers to short term prove-it deals.
Part of the lack of slug is not taking advantage of those middle middle pitches enough. It’s not a guarantee but if he’s more aggressive in the zone with his ability to hit the ball hard, I assume more doubles would come and his ability to steal a base makes a single at least a threat to become a double too.
He is a shortstop but we pigeon hole him into a “sluggers” position at third, and then, are disappointed that he doesn’t hit 30 HRs. If Jr’s at third and Garcia at ss, then we are raving about our power hitting 3rd baseman and our above average offensive ss. (Both being excellent defensive players) how about CF for Garcia, with his arm and speed? Those offensive numbers would look really good then.
I’ve long been against looking at position and position only because of what you’re saying. As for CF, they tried it briefly in spring and then went away from it for whatever reason. That said, he had a wRC+ of 84. The position doesn’t matter. That isn’t considered really good anywhere.
Ke’Bryan Hayes with more walks.
Hayes got to a .182 ISO this past season. Big gap there.
.116 and .101 previous 2 seasons. I can see Garcia there in his age 26 season.
Could be. I just think there’s a decent gap right now.