I’ll take the under on whether next year’s payroll will be the same as the payroll that started last season (included Greinke, Benintendi, Merrifield, and Santana). But I hope ownership is willing to spend on coaching and pitching developmental specialists!
It might be, but everything I’ve heard is that they don’t operate fully on a yearly budget. As long as they do make the moves they need when the time is right and are willing to go higher in a four or five year window, I don’t really care what the payroll is this year. If it doesn’t bump up big time in the next couple of years, I’m going to question a lot of things.
David, someone is lying to me. Its either JJ, or Sherman and that’s the part that confuses me. Sherman said all the right things in the beginning talking about churn, and roster improvements. That’s what has me confused. Because JJ isn’t going to work out at this rate. That may be a little quick….and they can still add some bottom of the barrel pieces but the last 5-6 guys on the list that signed would be fine for the royals with a 2 year deal. They have the money. Instead on a 97 loss team we will get more O’hearn, more Keller, more of everyone that we have already seen and hope. Hope is not a strategy. I’m frustrated by it because just as likely as Lynch is to improve, we could absolutely see Singer regress a little bit. Nobody knows, that’s the thing. So HOPING for EVERYONE to improve is a terrible strategy. I hope when they do spend money they are planning on a 150m payroll at this rate. I don’t need big moves here, but I expect trying to improve. Its not late in the offseason…but we aren’t early anymore either. We’ll see what JJ has.
I'll say that we don't know on JJ yet. And from things I've heard, he may have a short leash, which is confusing to me, but that's another story for another day honestly. Still, I don't think it's all bad when a team pivots to what the market tells them to do. You're right that hoping for improvement is a bad strategy, but as I wrote above, they're being honest with us and themselves that they don't think they can win in 2023. Are they better off giving 350 innings to two has-beens or are they better off giving Lynch/Bubic/Heasley and the rest a chance to work with someone competent and see where they need to spend next year? This goes back, to me, about the long-term vs. the short-term. They could absolutely spend some money and win 75 or even 80 games, but I choose to see this as JJ realizing something Dayton never did. Not every win is important to chase. 65 wins and 75 wins are the same. Honestly 75 wins is worse because of draft position (though the lottery might change that a bit).
So yeah, the front office is absolutely on notice, but I think there is the alternate angle that they saw what the market looked like (and keep in mind they know a lot more before the contracts come out than we do) and said they were better off evaluating in 2023 and then moving forward. They just better move forward after they evaluate.
Mr. L, thx for breaking down the insanity of the big spending. Seems to me the Royals are trying to answer Casey Stengel's famous question about the early Mets teams: "Can't nobody here play this game?"
David, why are they in the market for a backup catchers when they added Freddy Fermin to the 40 man roster. Where I’m going with this is….they added him to the 40…and then said the roster was full instead of getting a live arm in the rule 5 draft that maybe Sweeney could work with…but also saying they are in the market for a backup catcher? You hearing anything on why?
I think the simple answer is that while they're saying Melendez will catch, he won't catch that much. Having three catchers on the 40-man isn't a necessity, but it's very useful and if Melendez isn't that guy, they only have two right now no matter where MJ is listed.
Standing pat with the arms seems like a strong vote of confidence in the 2018 draft getting a strong bounce back. Otherwise they should just tear it down and rebuild right?
I hope their belief in the young pitchers bouncing back is grounded in reality and not wishful thinking/a lack of any better options.
My fear is this belief is just a spin on the ugly reality that they have no options left except to hold onto these guys (with their value at their lowest) and hope things get better so better action can be taken in the future.
I go back to that article in The Athletic from a few months ago where one scout said that these guys would be studs in a different organization. Well as far as the big league level is concerned, it's now a different organization. So I think yes, it's absolutely a vote of confidence both in the arms and in the new coaching staff. I definitely share your fear and don't think it's impossible that the fear becomes a reality, but I think it's worth the risk that your hope is correct. I don't know that I'd necessarily say that if the pitching market hadn't gone so crazy, but it did, so I am. If they could've gotten Taijuan Walker for the 3/36 deals we saw last offseason, I'd be frustrated they didn't do it. But 4/72? No thanks. I'm fine with seeing what new instruction can do for these guys.
I think I’m on the other side of it with spending money though. I’ve seen the Rays and Indians go out and get the guy they want. Yes, its probably easier for them to convince guys. But I don’t see this market going away as far as money being spent. So 4/72 now may seem high…but is it below market price in 2 years and you still have a solid pitcher in your rotation assuming no injuries. I think that’s the question nobody probably has a answer on. Unless the Royals go Rangers style…they aren’t bumping the payroll from 70million to 125million in one year. A bobby Witt, Singer, or some internal long term deal would be fine as well. But I don’t think they can be taken seriously if they just sit on all the cash and cry not time. Or, sign Singer now for whatever it takes because it will be below market value in 2 years. If your Singer looking at this market….there’s some risk in it by why sign now when you see what average pitchers can get. Alot has to continue for him in the 3-4 years he’s still here…but the longer it goes the harder it is.
They should absolutely be looking to extend guys. I'm going to have something about Singer tomorrow actually. And that's fine to disagree on this. I just don't know that spending this kind of money right now when they could arguably see what their new coaching staff can do with the guys who they have who they have already invested tons of time and money into makes a ton of sense. I can certainly see the other side. But it's not like there won't be pitchers available next year and the year after and the year after. Again, I'm fine with this NOW. I will not be fine with this in a year.
Yeah I totally understand your point. A lot of this is still so odd though on the timing and JJ on a short leash deal. Like maybe a big Bobby Witt Jr deal is in the works or something. How can you propose a 2B district needing public funding and then come back with the same team unless you have some long term extensions in the works? I know these guys are smart business people. You want big time money, give a little peanuts back to the people. Lol
The stadium certainly puts an extra wrinkle into all of this. I think there's at least a chance that they're underestimating how this looks to people. I also think most people aren't nearly as tuned in to what the team on the field is doing. It's easy to see this echo chamber as reality, but it could very well be that the other 80% or whatever the number is just doesn't care that they haven't made any moves and thinks a downtown stadium is cool. And then it doesn't matter. I don't know that, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's true.
Oh man, didn’t really think of that and what a total downer. I’d bet you are 100% right on that. 80% or at least a large percentage doesn’t care and thinks a downtown stadium would be cool and they know it will pass anyway.
Total downer. Ok, we’ll Royals, you don’t have to spend money to get what you want. But if you say you want to be more like the Rays and Indians please make some trades fellas. Both the Indians and Rays have made multiple trades since the offseason. Not big, but at least moves they think is better. Is that too much to ask? Lol
I'm in your camp as far as not rushing to sign players yet. Management talked of KC's "Army of Arms" before start of last season so I'd like to see if this new coaching staff can do them any good. I know it won't be instant miracles, but sure hope it is, but let them earn their pay and let us see how good those draft's picks were. Fingers crossed.
Yep, we're in the same boat here. They still need to add some inning so I hope it's not all pinned on internal arms, but I think what they're doing makes some sense.
I honestly have no idea. I would think it would be tough to anticipate it happening this year without any information on it at this point, but I really don't know.
I don’t mind the lack of moves for the big league roster. I do mind the lack of change in the organization outside of the coaching staff changes at the major league level. I think that management is wrong in it’s diagnosis that the minor league pitching development is ok, and I am frustrated that they have not hired an outside director of pitching from another organization with an excellent pitching track record to create and execute an overall organizational philosophy on how to develop pitchers to succeed at the major league level. Gibson, Adcock et al., have not really shown they know what they are doing. I want the major league coaching staff to succeed because these guys seem like rock stars, but I don’t believe that they have the entire organization figured out.
There is certainly a lot to pick apart with him saying that, but even with that, they are restructuring the department and from what I understand aren't done hiring. I'd encourage you to listen to this interview with Alec Marsh because it made me feel A LOT better about what they're doing in the minors - https://twitter.com/RoyalsFarm/status/1600991507041116160?s=20&t=29pbUphXZhekuXNx2g4kSg.
Glad to see this, I've been a little confused by the seemingly widespread frustration. The Royals, and many other small market teams, are not going to players in the early rounds of free agency. I also agree that it is probably not the right strategy at this moment to be early players (ie Ian Kennedy). The majority of the roster consists of talented young players. I am a little concerned with JJ's "leash". Hes not perfect and no GM is, but so far I think his assessment of the org and corresponding moves have been a huge upgrade. Based on the assumed lack of spending on the field, one can reason his success is going to be determined by progress of current players. This leads me to think the majority of JJ's focus is the restructuring of development systems and corresponding personnel hires, as this is what will dictate his (and his colleagues) future. Given this line of reasoning, is it fair to wonder if the priority given to free agency and trades is..lacking? If this front office knows their jobs are predicated on development and coaching staff hires, development system changes, extensions and MLB pitching improvement, maybe roster changes are not front of mind..Given this seems to be the case, maybe Sherman isnt willing to spend more until he has proof it will yield results.
Maybe they know, whether told or inferred, the staff has 2 years. If they know this, maybe they think taking their time and getting the hires right is much more important than negotiating a bloated deal for a below average starter worth 1 win in order to convince him to play for a bad team. If their jobs are based on progress, maybe negotiating a deal for Brian Bannister or someone similar helps save the future of the team and their jobs. Maybe I'm way off, just what's been on my mind..
I’ll take the under on whether next year’s payroll will be the same as the payroll that started last season (included Greinke, Benintendi, Merrifield, and Santana). But I hope ownership is willing to spend on coaching and pitching developmental specialists!
It might be, but everything I’ve heard is that they don’t operate fully on a yearly budget. As long as they do make the moves they need when the time is right and are willing to go higher in a four or five year window, I don’t really care what the payroll is this year. If it doesn’t bump up big time in the next couple of years, I’m going to question a lot of things.
David, someone is lying to me. Its either JJ, or Sherman and that’s the part that confuses me. Sherman said all the right things in the beginning talking about churn, and roster improvements. That’s what has me confused. Because JJ isn’t going to work out at this rate. That may be a little quick….and they can still add some bottom of the barrel pieces but the last 5-6 guys on the list that signed would be fine for the royals with a 2 year deal. They have the money. Instead on a 97 loss team we will get more O’hearn, more Keller, more of everyone that we have already seen and hope. Hope is not a strategy. I’m frustrated by it because just as likely as Lynch is to improve, we could absolutely see Singer regress a little bit. Nobody knows, that’s the thing. So HOPING for EVERYONE to improve is a terrible strategy. I hope when they do spend money they are planning on a 150m payroll at this rate. I don’t need big moves here, but I expect trying to improve. Its not late in the offseason…but we aren’t early anymore either. We’ll see what JJ has.
I'll say that we don't know on JJ yet. And from things I've heard, he may have a short leash, which is confusing to me, but that's another story for another day honestly. Still, I don't think it's all bad when a team pivots to what the market tells them to do. You're right that hoping for improvement is a bad strategy, but as I wrote above, they're being honest with us and themselves that they don't think they can win in 2023. Are they better off giving 350 innings to two has-beens or are they better off giving Lynch/Bubic/Heasley and the rest a chance to work with someone competent and see where they need to spend next year? This goes back, to me, about the long-term vs. the short-term. They could absolutely spend some money and win 75 or even 80 games, but I choose to see this as JJ realizing something Dayton never did. Not every win is important to chase. 65 wins and 75 wins are the same. Honestly 75 wins is worse because of draft position (though the lottery might change that a bit).
So yeah, the front office is absolutely on notice, but I think there is the alternate angle that they saw what the market looked like (and keep in mind they know a lot more before the contracts come out than we do) and said they were better off evaluating in 2023 and then moving forward. They just better move forward after they evaluate.
Mr. L, thx for breaking down the insanity of the big spending. Seems to me the Royals are trying to answer Casey Stengel's famous question about the early Mets teams: "Can't nobody here play this game?"
Hey, maybe they'll get that answer!
David, why are they in the market for a backup catchers when they added Freddy Fermin to the 40 man roster. Where I’m going with this is….they added him to the 40…and then said the roster was full instead of getting a live arm in the rule 5 draft that maybe Sweeney could work with…but also saying they are in the market for a backup catcher? You hearing anything on why?
I think the simple answer is that while they're saying Melendez will catch, he won't catch that much. Having three catchers on the 40-man isn't a necessity, but it's very useful and if Melendez isn't that guy, they only have two right now no matter where MJ is listed.
Standing pat with the arms seems like a strong vote of confidence in the 2018 draft getting a strong bounce back. Otherwise they should just tear it down and rebuild right?
I hope their belief in the young pitchers bouncing back is grounded in reality and not wishful thinking/a lack of any better options.
My fear is this belief is just a spin on the ugly reality that they have no options left except to hold onto these guys (with their value at their lowest) and hope things get better so better action can be taken in the future.
I go back to that article in The Athletic from a few months ago where one scout said that these guys would be studs in a different organization. Well as far as the big league level is concerned, it's now a different organization. So I think yes, it's absolutely a vote of confidence both in the arms and in the new coaching staff. I definitely share your fear and don't think it's impossible that the fear becomes a reality, but I think it's worth the risk that your hope is correct. I don't know that I'd necessarily say that if the pitching market hadn't gone so crazy, but it did, so I am. If they could've gotten Taijuan Walker for the 3/36 deals we saw last offseason, I'd be frustrated they didn't do it. But 4/72? No thanks. I'm fine with seeing what new instruction can do for these guys.
I think I’m on the other side of it with spending money though. I’ve seen the Rays and Indians go out and get the guy they want. Yes, its probably easier for them to convince guys. But I don’t see this market going away as far as money being spent. So 4/72 now may seem high…but is it below market price in 2 years and you still have a solid pitcher in your rotation assuming no injuries. I think that’s the question nobody probably has a answer on. Unless the Royals go Rangers style…they aren’t bumping the payroll from 70million to 125million in one year. A bobby Witt, Singer, or some internal long term deal would be fine as well. But I don’t think they can be taken seriously if they just sit on all the cash and cry not time. Or, sign Singer now for whatever it takes because it will be below market value in 2 years. If your Singer looking at this market….there’s some risk in it by why sign now when you see what average pitchers can get. Alot has to continue for him in the 3-4 years he’s still here…but the longer it goes the harder it is.
They should absolutely be looking to extend guys. I'm going to have something about Singer tomorrow actually. And that's fine to disagree on this. I just don't know that spending this kind of money right now when they could arguably see what their new coaching staff can do with the guys who they have who they have already invested tons of time and money into makes a ton of sense. I can certainly see the other side. But it's not like there won't be pitchers available next year and the year after and the year after. Again, I'm fine with this NOW. I will not be fine with this in a year.
Yeah I totally understand your point. A lot of this is still so odd though on the timing and JJ on a short leash deal. Like maybe a big Bobby Witt Jr deal is in the works or something. How can you propose a 2B district needing public funding and then come back with the same team unless you have some long term extensions in the works? I know these guys are smart business people. You want big time money, give a little peanuts back to the people. Lol
The stadium certainly puts an extra wrinkle into all of this. I think there's at least a chance that they're underestimating how this looks to people. I also think most people aren't nearly as tuned in to what the team on the field is doing. It's easy to see this echo chamber as reality, but it could very well be that the other 80% or whatever the number is just doesn't care that they haven't made any moves and thinks a downtown stadium is cool. And then it doesn't matter. I don't know that, but it wouldn't surprise me if that's true.
Oh man, didn’t really think of that and what a total downer. I’d bet you are 100% right on that. 80% or at least a large percentage doesn’t care and thinks a downtown stadium would be cool and they know it will pass anyway.
Total downer. Ok, we’ll Royals, you don’t have to spend money to get what you want. But if you say you want to be more like the Rays and Indians please make some trades fellas. Both the Indians and Rays have made multiple trades since the offseason. Not big, but at least moves they think is better. Is that too much to ask? Lol
I'm in your camp as far as not rushing to sign players yet. Management talked of KC's "Army of Arms" before start of last season so I'd like to see if this new coaching staff can do them any good. I know it won't be instant miracles, but sure hope it is, but let them earn their pay and let us see how good those draft's picks were. Fingers crossed.
Yep, we're in the same boat here. They still need to add some inning so I hope it's not all pinned on internal arms, but I think what they're doing makes some sense.
Is interest in bringing Can Gallagher back low because of his vaccination status? My guess is yes.
I don't know that it is low. And I'm not sure that vaccination status will matter in 2023 anyway.
Yo any news on FanFest?
I honestly have no idea. I would think it would be tough to anticipate it happening this year without any information on it at this point, but I really don't know.
Can I you give me any reasons on why they wouldn’t have it?
I really don't have any idea.
I don’t mind the lack of moves for the big league roster. I do mind the lack of change in the organization outside of the coaching staff changes at the major league level. I think that management is wrong in it’s diagnosis that the minor league pitching development is ok, and I am frustrated that they have not hired an outside director of pitching from another organization with an excellent pitching track record to create and execute an overall organizational philosophy on how to develop pitchers to succeed at the major league level. Gibson, Adcock et al., have not really shown they know what they are doing. I want the major league coaching staff to succeed because these guys seem like rock stars, but I don’t believe that they have the entire organization figured out.
There is certainly a lot to pick apart with him saying that, but even with that, they are restructuring the department and from what I understand aren't done hiring. I'd encourage you to listen to this interview with Alec Marsh because it made me feel A LOT better about what they're doing in the minors - https://twitter.com/RoyalsFarm/status/1600991507041116160?s=20&t=29pbUphXZhekuXNx2g4kSg.
Glad to see this, I've been a little confused by the seemingly widespread frustration. The Royals, and many other small market teams, are not going to players in the early rounds of free agency. I also agree that it is probably not the right strategy at this moment to be early players (ie Ian Kennedy). The majority of the roster consists of talented young players. I am a little concerned with JJ's "leash". Hes not perfect and no GM is, but so far I think his assessment of the org and corresponding moves have been a huge upgrade. Based on the assumed lack of spending on the field, one can reason his success is going to be determined by progress of current players. This leads me to think the majority of JJ's focus is the restructuring of development systems and corresponding personnel hires, as this is what will dictate his (and his colleagues) future. Given this line of reasoning, is it fair to wonder if the priority given to free agency and trades is..lacking? If this front office knows their jobs are predicated on development and coaching staff hires, development system changes, extensions and MLB pitching improvement, maybe roster changes are not front of mind..Given this seems to be the case, maybe Sherman isnt willing to spend more until he has proof it will yield results.
Maybe they know, whether told or inferred, the staff has 2 years. If they know this, maybe they think taking their time and getting the hires right is much more important than negotiating a bloated deal for a below average starter worth 1 win in order to convince him to play for a bad team. If their jobs are based on progress, maybe negotiating a deal for Brian Bannister or someone similar helps save the future of the team and their jobs. Maybe I'm way off, just what's been on my mind..
All of this frenzied inactivity makes me wonder if they are still clinging to the Mondesi and O'Hearn and Keller fantasies.