I'm actually okay with it - though I love Kauffman, I am eager to see what a brand new stadium would bring to the table. The artist renderings left a lot to be desired, but hopefully they have something cool in mind (and bring the big scoreboard with them, of course).
Honestly, I'm fine with it too. My thought was it was a mistake putting those renderings in with the letter because I think people got pretty caught up in what that looked like. I also love Kauffman and love not having to deal with downtown traffic to get there, but I definitely think a new stadium is going to be pretty awesome.
Shift or no shift, I'm with you 100% on the O'Hearn signing - makes very little sense given all the young talent we have that can contribute more (at half the price and with twice the potential). For now, I'll suspend disbelief and have faith that they have plans for him that justify the contract. I just can't see it right now.
Regarding the new stadium, I'm ok with it also and think it's about time. Unfortunately, we all know that the financial projections that go along with new stadium justifications are usually 100% fiction. Taxpayers always pay more and ownership never pays enough. That's a sports (especially baseball) reality.
Thanks, Dean. On the O'Hearn deal, what's done is done, I guess, and I have to hope that their new data driven approach that does show the shift hurt him so much proves correct and he's a solid bench bat. I probably should have written this, but I was starting to run long (who? me? never!). My guess is the plan is for Pratto to start back in Omaha after his struggles. I still don't see a big need for a lefty bench bat in a lineup where I don't think you pinch hit for any of the righties but maybe Nate Eaton, but hopefully he can put up his non-shift numbers in 2023.
And you're dead on about the sports reality. Whether it's something we want to accept or not, (and I hate this phrase, but) it is what it is.
Thanks David, On your Pratto comment, with them securing (or seeming too) a spot for O’Hearn. Are we now more leaning to Pratto possibly being traded? Just needing more time (which if he needs more time why aren’t we trading him…unless his stint last year hurt his value too much). I’m not sure I follow the reasoning of having 3 left handed hitting 1B’s on the same team. Yes, I guess they can play other spots….but this seems so redundant.
Unless, they are moving Pratto……but even then that doesn’t seem so likely as he is your best defender at first. Maybe, they have moved off that thinking tho if Vinny is a top 30 hitter.
I don’t know that it means a whole lot as to the trade value of Pratto. He’s under team control through at least 2028. I’m not sure why him needing more time means he needs to be traded. But if they are leaning toward trade, it could be that they want to rebuild some value with good work in the minors. Just speculating on some potential reasoning.
Ultimately my guess is they believe they have one first baseman they know will be there in Vinnie and think O’Hearn is solid insurance AND is someone who has accepted a role many don’t accept. I disagree with it, of course, but I just think that’s their thought process.
I don’t think they need to trade Pratto. Trying to use a Rays line of thinking here though. If they have determined he needs more seasoning as have doubts about him fulfilling his potential. Then the Rays would trade him. This is just me hoping for more Rays like moves more than anything. You don’t trade him for nothing obviously, or trade him just to trade him, but maybe if you get a starter back or if he’s part of a larger package. Your most likely right in that it is just insurance. I don’t really care about O’Hearn. This isn’t so much about O’Hearn the player. I’m up in arms and other people are as well in what it signifies more than anything. This roster doesn’t work. Everyone can’t come back. The perception has been for months he was out and this was a layup. If they brought him back after a little bit of roster churn I don’t think it would be that big a deal. Just the timing of it more than anything I think. So hopefully that churn is coming. No need to spill more ink on it! Lol
But I don’t think needing more seasoning necessarily = doubts about fulfilling potential. I just don’t think there’s a correlation between thinking Pratto isn’t quite there and having to move him immediately.
The roster doesn’t work and didn’t when I wrote about it a few months ago. But there’s also a non-tender deadline in two days and the off-season is less than two weeks old. I would still bet on a very different looking team come March 30.
First, when I read about O'Hearn and his signing, I had a hard time accepting it. I had a steadfast belief that he, for sure, would be gone. But waiting a day, not letting emotions control my thoughts, maybe the shift contributed to his numbers. Maybe something is going on behind the scenes we don't know about. It's just difficult to accept a player, with his numbers, taking up a spot on the roster. But again, I will defer to those with now knowledge than me.
Second.....
In late September, 1976 i attended my first game at the K, the day before I enlisted in the Marine Corps. A 10 inning game against the Angels, with the Royals winning. Although I understand the economic benefit for a new stadium, I much prefer older older venues - Wrigley, Fenway and yes, I enjoyed the Metrodome. I watched Cecil Fielder hit one too the parking lot in old County Stadium. Been to Wrigley before and after lights. Beautiful place. Enough for nostalgia. Please keep the old feel with a new stadium. Do not make it a cookie cuter place. Crown vision and fountains. A version of the Pepsi Porch. Residing in South Central Kansas, I don't get to a many games, but do watch all games and go when I can. I have shared the K with my wife and 2 grandsons. Let's hope Mr. Sherman does this right.
Ed, never apologize for a ramble. All I do is ramble!
For me, even if their reasoning is the shift, I still disagree with it but it’s an interesting experiment at least. I just wish his roster spot wasn’t taking the place of someone like Sikkema who I believe should have been protected. There’s every chance in the world I’m way off on that, so maybe it’s a meaningless exercise and I shouldn’t even pay much attention to it.
I’m certainly with you on the history at Kauffman. I don’t go back as far as that, but I’ll never forget things like being at the 18-inning game in 1991, George Brett’s last homestand or getting to see a World Series comeback in 2015 with my dad on his birthday. Lots of memories there, but the good news is that we can make lots of memories at a new park too. But yes, let’s hope it’s done right so our memories don’t blend with other cookie cutter parks around the country.
I think he is, but I think it’s because they’re not going to jerk MJ around and he’ll be in the outfield. He certainly *could* be moved but I don’t think I’d bet on it.
I'm excited to see what spot they choose for the new stadium. I want to see a more accurate drawing of it since the once in the letter is as vanilla as it could be. Hopefully they can get a streetcar spur to where the stadium will be so parking isn't a big concern. Baseball is also more compatible with having a district around it since you normally don't show up super early to the game. This would allow the spot to be busy and hopefully help lift up a part of the city that has been struggling
I think the district around the park is what I’m most excited about. I’m a big fan of The K, but I also always love downtown stadiums when I’m out of town.
The thing that bugs me the most about the new stadium thing is that he claims it would take the same amount of money to renovate Kauffman, which is insane. They just renovated it a few years ago for $250M. How far behind can it really be to other stadiums? I find it hard to believe it's $2B worth.
Agreed on that. Though I do think the $2B is for more than just the stadium and that extra stuff is impossible around the current park. I can’t imagine what would need to be done to the current park to get it modern again though that would cost a lot more than what it did 15 years ago.
As far as the O'Hearn signing....ugh, not again! I really don't like this at all. There are way too many "ifs" about his production. I believe he is what we see and that is not a significant contributor to a playoff caliber team. And isn't that our ultimate goal for the Royals?
I love The K! Lots of good memories there. Since the renovation it is even better. I live 180 miles away and make it there for 5-10 games a year, so I know my opinion doesn't count for much, but I am not looking forward to a ballpark in town, especially downtown. I have went to a few events downtown and would go to more but the parking situation is atrocious to this country boy. I know, I know, my opinion doesn't matter, but I expect I will attend fewer games just because of the hassle factor.
Hey, I agree on O’Hearn. I just don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze.
On the stadium, I’d bet they’ll have a parking plan in place, but if not, they’ll need to expect that they’re going to lose some people. Their hope, of course, is that those like you are replaced with more people who wouldn’t have otherwise gone but it’s a gamble and one that definitely sucks for the people who are likely to attend fewer games. I hope they find a happy medium to keep the majority of people who feel right now like it will be too difficult.
I've always been curious about downtown baseball. I think cities are better with strong central districts that pull people in (permanently or daily) from the suburbs. A stadium can help with that.
For me though, it's largely going to depend if they get it right with the location and the stadium.
My preferred location, which they've not discussed, is the BCBS lot to the east of union station. I don't know if there's enough room for a ballpark district there though. I think the proposal is pretty clear that the Royals want to own that ballpark district.
Yeah that’s what I’m most interested in. There are a lot of possibilities but location is going to obviously be what makes it what it is. Not the scoreboard or fountains or whatever.
I don't think a lot of us will get used to a new stadium because we just won't go downtown. The Royals drastically underestimate how this impacts fans who are 2+ hours away. Add in more expense and hassle of dealing with downtown and we just won't go to games. Certainly not weekday games. The ease of cruising into the parking lot and being in your seat in 15 minutes is something we are accustomed to as adult fans, and the older I get the less I pay for things that cause me hassle and inconvenience. The very reason everyone in my friend group stopped going to Chiefs games 5-6 years ago. When the stress and expense outweigh the fun, you stop engaging in those activities.
I personally think the difficulty of a downtown stadium is overrated, but a lot of that depends on how the build the area around the stadium, including parking. I'd wager that many downtown stadiums can offer the same ease as we get with Kauffman right now, but just in a different way.
I see what you are saying, but I think your definition of hassle depends on who you are and your situation. Family of 4 driving in from 2-3hrs away? Hassle. 4 buddies that are 25-35, live in the KC area, and want to get crunk at the bars after? Awesome!
It's just very obvious from the perspective of a fan who doesn't live in the KC Metro that this isn't a move geared toward my demographic.
Just for argument's sake, what does it matter where the stadium is if you're driving from two hours away and you can still park and get into the stadium? Is an extra turn because of one-way streets going to change that much in the final five minutes of that drive? My point is the importance is that there remains a convenience, even if it is slightly different than what is currently in place.
Valid question, and would render my frustration mute if this were to come to fruition. But this requires a tremendous leap of faith. Admittedly I've only attended games at 8 stadiums but of those the "hassle factor" increases as the population density does. I've looked at he proposed locations and without unbelievable amounts of infrastructure improvements, this will be a mess.
I'm not so negative to assume it's not possible (I've not been to those stadiums, would love to). We are just dealing with knowns vs unknowns and it's no fun to let go of treasured knowns like convenience, safety, and tailgating for a shiny new object that guarantees none of those.
Just because they signed O'Hearn doesn't mean they won't trade him. With the shift going away his value may have gone up a little. They actually might be able to get a prospect for him now by trading him to a team with a short right field fence. They did the same thing with DeJesus years ago. I think they signed him for something like 4 mil. (I'm not sure about the amount), then traded him. But then again he was a much better hitter than O'Hearn
I'm completely against a downtown stadium. Royals stadium is one of the best in baseball. I think this shows that all the team is interested in is making outside money. They'll have interest in any businesses that are around the stadium. That's something they do not have now. What they do have now is one of the best parking situations in baseball which will completely go away downtown. Even if they make parking access decent you still have to contend with I 70 and other major highways that get congested when a lot of people go to a downtown event. I used to work downtown. I hated it. I won't even go back for any reason. They need to spend their money on building a winning organization that will contend for years to come
Re: the new stadium
I'm actually okay with it - though I love Kauffman, I am eager to see what a brand new stadium would bring to the table. The artist renderings left a lot to be desired, but hopefully they have something cool in mind (and bring the big scoreboard with them, of course).
Honestly, I'm fine with it too. My thought was it was a mistake putting those renderings in with the letter because I think people got pretty caught up in what that looked like. I also love Kauffman and love not having to deal with downtown traffic to get there, but I definitely think a new stadium is going to be pretty awesome.
Great article, David.
Shift or no shift, I'm with you 100% on the O'Hearn signing - makes very little sense given all the young talent we have that can contribute more (at half the price and with twice the potential). For now, I'll suspend disbelief and have faith that they have plans for him that justify the contract. I just can't see it right now.
Regarding the new stadium, I'm ok with it also and think it's about time. Unfortunately, we all know that the financial projections that go along with new stadium justifications are usually 100% fiction. Taxpayers always pay more and ownership never pays enough. That's a sports (especially baseball) reality.
Thanks, Dean. On the O'Hearn deal, what's done is done, I guess, and I have to hope that their new data driven approach that does show the shift hurt him so much proves correct and he's a solid bench bat. I probably should have written this, but I was starting to run long (who? me? never!). My guess is the plan is for Pratto to start back in Omaha after his struggles. I still don't see a big need for a lefty bench bat in a lineup where I don't think you pinch hit for any of the righties but maybe Nate Eaton, but hopefully he can put up his non-shift numbers in 2023.
And you're dead on about the sports reality. Whether it's something we want to accept or not, (and I hate this phrase, but) it is what it is.
Thanks David, On your Pratto comment, with them securing (or seeming too) a spot for O’Hearn. Are we now more leaning to Pratto possibly being traded? Just needing more time (which if he needs more time why aren’t we trading him…unless his stint last year hurt his value too much). I’m not sure I follow the reasoning of having 3 left handed hitting 1B’s on the same team. Yes, I guess they can play other spots….but this seems so redundant.
Unless, they are moving Pratto……but even then that doesn’t seem so likely as he is your best defender at first. Maybe, they have moved off that thinking tho if Vinny is a top 30 hitter.
I don’t know that it means a whole lot as to the trade value of Pratto. He’s under team control through at least 2028. I’m not sure why him needing more time means he needs to be traded. But if they are leaning toward trade, it could be that they want to rebuild some value with good work in the minors. Just speculating on some potential reasoning.
Ultimately my guess is they believe they have one first baseman they know will be there in Vinnie and think O’Hearn is solid insurance AND is someone who has accepted a role many don’t accept. I disagree with it, of course, but I just think that’s their thought process.
I don’t think they need to trade Pratto. Trying to use a Rays line of thinking here though. If they have determined he needs more seasoning as have doubts about him fulfilling his potential. Then the Rays would trade him. This is just me hoping for more Rays like moves more than anything. You don’t trade him for nothing obviously, or trade him just to trade him, but maybe if you get a starter back or if he’s part of a larger package. Your most likely right in that it is just insurance. I don’t really care about O’Hearn. This isn’t so much about O’Hearn the player. I’m up in arms and other people are as well in what it signifies more than anything. This roster doesn’t work. Everyone can’t come back. The perception has been for months he was out and this was a layup. If they brought him back after a little bit of roster churn I don’t think it would be that big a deal. Just the timing of it more than anything I think. So hopefully that churn is coming. No need to spill more ink on it! Lol
But I don’t think needing more seasoning necessarily = doubts about fulfilling potential. I just don’t think there’s a correlation between thinking Pratto isn’t quite there and having to move him immediately.
The roster doesn’t work and didn’t when I wrote about it a few months ago. But there’s also a non-tender deadline in two days and the off-season is less than two weeks old. I would still bet on a very different looking team come March 30.
Excellent insight!
First, when I read about O'Hearn and his signing, I had a hard time accepting it. I had a steadfast belief that he, for sure, would be gone. But waiting a day, not letting emotions control my thoughts, maybe the shift contributed to his numbers. Maybe something is going on behind the scenes we don't know about. It's just difficult to accept a player, with his numbers, taking up a spot on the roster. But again, I will defer to those with now knowledge than me.
Second.....
In late September, 1976 i attended my first game at the K, the day before I enlisted in the Marine Corps. A 10 inning game against the Angels, with the Royals winning. Although I understand the economic benefit for a new stadium, I much prefer older older venues - Wrigley, Fenway and yes, I enjoyed the Metrodome. I watched Cecil Fielder hit one too the parking lot in old County Stadium. Been to Wrigley before and after lights. Beautiful place. Enough for nostalgia. Please keep the old feel with a new stadium. Do not make it a cookie cuter place. Crown vision and fountains. A version of the Pepsi Porch. Residing in South Central Kansas, I don't get to a many games, but do watch all games and go when I can. I have shared the K with my wife and 2 grandsons. Let's hope Mr. Sherman does this right.
Sorry, again, fire the ramble.
Ed, never apologize for a ramble. All I do is ramble!
For me, even if their reasoning is the shift, I still disagree with it but it’s an interesting experiment at least. I just wish his roster spot wasn’t taking the place of someone like Sikkema who I believe should have been protected. There’s every chance in the world I’m way off on that, so maybe it’s a meaningless exercise and I shouldn’t even pay much attention to it.
I’m certainly with you on the history at Kauffman. I don’t go back as far as that, but I’ll never forget things like being at the 18-inning game in 1991, George Brett’s last homestand or getting to see a World Series comeback in 2015 with my dad on his birthday. Lots of memories there, but the good news is that we can make lots of memories at a new park too. But yes, let’s hope it’s done right so our memories don’t blend with other cookie cutter parks around the country.
Are we sure Fermin isn’t being eyed as the No. 2 catcher? I still have a sneaking suspicion that they’ll trade MJ this winter.
I think he is, but I think it’s because they’re not going to jerk MJ around and he’ll be in the outfield. He certainly *could* be moved but I don’t think I’d bet on it.
I'm excited to see what spot they choose for the new stadium. I want to see a more accurate drawing of it since the once in the letter is as vanilla as it could be. Hopefully they can get a streetcar spur to where the stadium will be so parking isn't a big concern. Baseball is also more compatible with having a district around it since you normally don't show up super early to the game. This would allow the spot to be busy and hopefully help lift up a part of the city that has been struggling
I think the district around the park is what I’m most excited about. I’m a big fan of The K, but I also always love downtown stadiums when I’m out of town.
The thing that bugs me the most about the new stadium thing is that he claims it would take the same amount of money to renovate Kauffman, which is insane. They just renovated it a few years ago for $250M. How far behind can it really be to other stadiums? I find it hard to believe it's $2B worth.
Agreed on that. Though I do think the $2B is for more than just the stadium and that extra stuff is impossible around the current park. I can’t imagine what would need to be done to the current park to get it modern again though that would cost a lot more than what it did 15 years ago.
As far as the O'Hearn signing....ugh, not again! I really don't like this at all. There are way too many "ifs" about his production. I believe he is what we see and that is not a significant contributor to a playoff caliber team. And isn't that our ultimate goal for the Royals?
I love The K! Lots of good memories there. Since the renovation it is even better. I live 180 miles away and make it there for 5-10 games a year, so I know my opinion doesn't count for much, but I am not looking forward to a ballpark in town, especially downtown. I have went to a few events downtown and would go to more but the parking situation is atrocious to this country boy. I know, I know, my opinion doesn't matter, but I expect I will attend fewer games just because of the hassle factor.
Hey, I agree on O’Hearn. I just don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze.
On the stadium, I’d bet they’ll have a parking plan in place, but if not, they’ll need to expect that they’re going to lose some people. Their hope, of course, is that those like you are replaced with more people who wouldn’t have otherwise gone but it’s a gamble and one that definitely sucks for the people who are likely to attend fewer games. I hope they find a happy medium to keep the majority of people who feel right now like it will be too difficult.
I've always been curious about downtown baseball. I think cities are better with strong central districts that pull people in (permanently or daily) from the suburbs. A stadium can help with that.
For me though, it's largely going to depend if they get it right with the location and the stadium.
My preferred location, which they've not discussed, is the BCBS lot to the east of union station. I don't know if there's enough room for a ballpark district there though. I think the proposal is pretty clear that the Royals want to own that ballpark district.
Yeah that’s what I’m most interested in. There are a lot of possibilities but location is going to obviously be what makes it what it is. Not the scoreboard or fountains or whatever.
I don't think a lot of us will get used to a new stadium because we just won't go downtown. The Royals drastically underestimate how this impacts fans who are 2+ hours away. Add in more expense and hassle of dealing with downtown and we just won't go to games. Certainly not weekday games. The ease of cruising into the parking lot and being in your seat in 15 minutes is something we are accustomed to as adult fans, and the older I get the less I pay for things that cause me hassle and inconvenience. The very reason everyone in my friend group stopped going to Chiefs games 5-6 years ago. When the stress and expense outweigh the fun, you stop engaging in those activities.
I personally think the difficulty of a downtown stadium is overrated, but a lot of that depends on how the build the area around the stadium, including parking. I'd wager that many downtown stadiums can offer the same ease as we get with Kauffman right now, but just in a different way.
I see what you are saying, but I think your definition of hassle depends on who you are and your situation. Family of 4 driving in from 2-3hrs away? Hassle. 4 buddies that are 25-35, live in the KC area, and want to get crunk at the bars after? Awesome!
It's just very obvious from the perspective of a fan who doesn't live in the KC Metro that this isn't a move geared toward my demographic.
Just for argument's sake, what does it matter where the stadium is if you're driving from two hours away and you can still park and get into the stadium? Is an extra turn because of one-way streets going to change that much in the final five minutes of that drive? My point is the importance is that there remains a convenience, even if it is slightly different than what is currently in place.
Valid question, and would render my frustration mute if this were to come to fruition. But this requires a tremendous leap of faith. Admittedly I've only attended games at 8 stadiums but of those the "hassle factor" increases as the population density does. I've looked at he proposed locations and without unbelievable amounts of infrastructure improvements, this will be a mess.
Admittedly in a rental car, but I’ve gotten from car to seat at Coors in 15 minutes or so. Same in Seattle. I’m just saying it’s possible.
I'm not so negative to assume it's not possible (I've not been to those stadiums, would love to). We are just dealing with knowns vs unknowns and it's no fun to let go of treasured knowns like convenience, safety, and tailgating for a shiny new object that guarantees none of those.
Just because they signed O'Hearn doesn't mean they won't trade him. With the shift going away his value may have gone up a little. They actually might be able to get a prospect for him now by trading him to a team with a short right field fence. They did the same thing with DeJesus years ago. I think they signed him for something like 4 mil. (I'm not sure about the amount), then traded him. But then again he was a much better hitter than O'Hearn
I'm completely against a downtown stadium. Royals stadium is one of the best in baseball. I think this shows that all the team is interested in is making outside money. They'll have interest in any businesses that are around the stadium. That's something they do not have now. What they do have now is one of the best parking situations in baseball which will completely go away downtown. Even if they make parking access decent you still have to contend with I 70 and other major highways that get congested when a lot of people go to a downtown event. I used to work downtown. I hated it. I won't even go back for any reason. They need to spend their money on building a winning organization that will contend for years to come