I'm sorry but "they tried really hard during all those losses" doesn't do much for me. It's probably because I'm 63 years old but I've heard and read those words so many times before that they mean nothing to me. There is no room in box scores or the standings for "they did their best."
Just let David have a 6 run comeback victory to talk about Bass. Lol. It’s been a rough year.
The “tried hard” is a lot like the “bad luck” comments. Whenever you hear tv commentators talking about prolonged bad luck or they never gave up. They are always broadcasting for a losing club. Those only get pulled out when they are at a loss for other things to talk about. I think this situation applies for us right now though. So go with it for a little bit. Lol.
That was very well put, Joel. I'm just not sure I can persuade myself to "go with it" once again when "going with it" has led me straight down the path to bitter disappointments so very many times before. This is all depressingly familiar and familiarly depressing.
I disagree. The quality of the players is below par and that is the GM's fault. A manager can only get the best he can from the players given. And this group is below par. There is some real potential as I see it with Pratto, Samad Taylor, MJ, Witt of course, and maybe even Isbel. But until they get some dominant pitching they are not going to win consistently.
I offered no criticism of the manager. It's far too early yet to make any sort of final "pro or con" decision on him. Couldn't agree with you more about the quality of players but the big question is: which GM's fault is it?
After Sunday's loss the Royals were on pace to lose 119 games, threatening the 1962 Mets' record for futility with 120 losses. An uncomfortable question presents itself but it needs to be asked by all honest fans: at what point is it time to say "well, this attempt at a rebuild was a miserable flop. Time to blow it up and start all over again."
I'm definitely NOT saying that we're there yet. I definitely AM saying that it's not difficult to see that point from where we are right now. That would involve giving up on our cherished (and highly overblown) dreams of immortal glory for players like Singer and MJ and BWJ and Lynch. That won't be fun or easy but it's probably going to happen one way or another, whether during this attempt at a rebuild or the next one.
You’re hearing a lot of people complain about Q huh? Interesting. I think he’s leaned a little too lenient….only with some of the miscues we’ve seen. If it happens once fine, but 4 times…come on. Maybe that’s just what it feels like on this team though. I don’t think he’s done a bad job. Maybe not great, but not bad. Look when you’re 19-52 someone needs to take the blame. It’s just a weird situation all around. I guess Q could get some of that so it makes some sense. It’s a unique situation in that people are not happy….but nobody is 100% sure whose fault it is either. I’ve seen Q, JJ, and Sherman. It just unique right now. The players are very clearly not good enough though.
Which brings me to the next observation from your article. A logjam on a 19-52 team…is that a real thing? Olivares needs to go for a lottery ticket. It’s just time, but that’s my opinion. Stop waiting for the perfect offer if you are on that one and do it sooner rather than later. I think everyone fear early that nobody wanted to really talk about yet was if this group was good enough. It’s one season, and you don’t give up on guys these young but that fear is pretty close to reality at this point. The only real questions are how they get addressed and how long it takes now.
Oh yeah, there are A TON of complaints. Maybe it's just a vocal minority, but it's a lot. I maintain that it's hard to place too much blame, though I understand at least some of the frustration with all of the key players.
It's absolutely a real thing. I'm not saying they have 14 good players who need to play every day, but they have that many young players who we need to see what they can do. Personally, I don't care if they give Blanco a real shot or not, but I'm not upset if they do, but I think you can argue that the rest of them should be given some time and there are only so many spots to put them.
I think Olivares should go as well, but I also wouldn't just trade him for the first offer. A .750 OPS over the last two years is nothing to sneeze at and I think there's value for a contender. I'd be shopping him HARD though.
So, I’ve heard people talk in the past about how excited they are for Drew Waters and how good he is. It’s been rough, and I’m not sure I can see some of the things others are seeing. I’m not saying it was a bad trade or anything. I think you do it again. And maybe it’s just a bad start. 150 career MLB plate appearances is not enough to make a decision. But I’m also not sure he’s the guy you can be depending on being your best outfielder either. It’s entirely possible I’ve just seen a few at bats over the weekend and the timing was bad but my concern level is up a little bit with him.
He looks awful at the plate right now. I do think he's a streaky hitter, so there might be a two-week stretch where he looks like an MVP and it all balances out, but I'm not loving what I'm seeing from him.
May I have a pet peeve or maybe it’s just my imagination but I get irritated when balls get hit to the infield when they are probably sure outs, it looks like a lot of batters run like they are sure outs too. I was not a Pete Rose fan but I admired that he ran every batted ball out period. I don’t know if it would make any difference or not, it just looks like they are a tad bit complacent. It also might be that since they are losing, I’m nit picking and just looking for things to get P.O.’d at. Maybe if they start to turn it around, I’ll stop looking for things to nit pick. Thank you, I’ll now step down off my soap box.
So I see both sides. Bust it down the line on a play that's an out 999 times out of 1000, pop a hamstring and miss eight weeks and you feel silly for it. But don't bust it, the ball gets bobbled and you still get thrown out and you feel silly. Some days I get super annoyed. Others, I get it completely. Depends on when you mention it. Right now, I get it completely.
I loved Charlie hustle when I was a kid. I have unfortunately half watched almost all of these games and have been impressed with the royals hustle. A couple times players didn't leg it,
but who hasn't hustled in general?
Haven't seen every play, but I am curious. I will say I think Mj looks a little laxidasical at times, but that might just be his chill confidence vibe, idk
This team is simply inefficient; players and coaches alike. As an example (and there are several but I'll mention a few here); a hit for us with RISP is like the full-size spare tire - you remember seeing them as a kid, but you haven't seen them yourself in years.
Coaching-wise example; I still can't get the BWJ pick off at third from a few weeks ago out of my head. And I'm not even mad at BWJ - the third base Coaches ONLY real job in that case, especially with a large lead off like that, is to watch for the pick move and he wasn't even looking in the right direction.
In sports and life, little things always lead to big things. They are playing the game at the highest level of competition in the Universe. One little thing and you may be okay, two, you still may have a shot, three and you can almost kiss it goodbye. Little things, to me, is mostly Coaching. I don't know if it's entirely Q, but it's this staff and he's the one who put it together. So he's responsible for the product. Now do I think you send him packing??? I would definitely put him on notice that if they don't clean up the little things then he can start planning a little vacation.
I think a team 33 games under .500 on June 18 is inherently inefficient. At some point, though, doesn't the blame have to be on the player? I just think it gets a little lazy to blame Vance Wilson for a professional to not be aware of a back pick.
I do completely agree the little things can lead to the big things. No argument here on that. But also, you have to be able to do the big things for the little things to matter. I think Q probably leans a little too player friendly just from the outside looking in and that needs to change because we also don't know what is being preached day in and day out. I have a hunch they aren't sitting around sharing lollipops and then going out to play a game at 7:10 every night. He's responsible for the product on the field, sure, and if it never turns around, he's going to be the one to pay just like Matheny was the one to pay, but I think if you're doing things like managing the people well, the rest can be figured out.
I do understand the perspective that at some point it falls on the player; but in my opinion the that is a hard no; from a fan and Coach's perspective. I've been fortunate to Coach football for 20 years and I've won some/lost some, just like all Coaches. And I've been fortunate to achieve a few accomplishments that not all Coaches do; multiple district and conference championships, multiple undefeated seasons and a National Championship.
When my assistants would tell me that the kids weren't hearing the message I told them to find a different way to express the message. If they still don't get the message because they want to be stubborn, then find a different player. I've never taken the old "he just doesn't get it" excuse - if he doesn't get it you're either not speaking his language or he'll never get it so move on.
As for Vance Wilson; I don't think it's lazy to blame him for that play, it would be lazy to blame him for everything. Unless the 3b Coach has a different responsibility in that situation (and if he does, then it adds to Q's issues - who else would be responsible for it?
what else could he be responsible for on that play that's more important?), then yes, he is absolutely responsible for that play which is my entire point. It's the highest level - if you're a big league Coach you can ALWAYS fulfill your basic responsibilities. Yes, you may send a guy from 3d and he doesn't make it - that's a judgement call. In Royals history we have plenty of possibly bad judgement calls from 3d base Coaches. However, if you don't hold your Coaches accountable for fundamentals then I promise you that your players are taking notice and the reins get a little looser - which is another little thing...
I hear you on this; "But also, you have to be able to do the big things for the little things to matter." but I disagree on that most of the time - when you do the little things consistently you don't need big things near as much. We can play a great game and they can play a great game and win. They can win because they have bigger dogs than we do - okay - I can live with that. I can't live with beating ourselves which to me, comes down to Coaching. Otherwise, every time we saw yet another "dream team" they would always win it all - that rarely happens.
I was personally disappointed in the Sunday game - I really wanted that win to ?maybe? get us into a short lived winning streak/mentality
I REALLY liked that collective run thanks to the middle of lineup rookies working together for the first run in the 2nd. Garcia with a double, Taylor sac bunts him to 3rd, then Fermin (older rookie) drives him in - That is fun!
Liking BWJ approach and how can you hate on that Cox outing?
Yeah, it sux now, but if I squint into the future.....
I'm sorry but "they tried really hard during all those losses" doesn't do much for me. It's probably because I'm 63 years old but I've heard and read those words so many times before that they mean nothing to me. There is no room in box scores or the standings for "they did their best."
Just let David have a 6 run comeback victory to talk about Bass. Lol. It’s been a rough year.
The “tried hard” is a lot like the “bad luck” comments. Whenever you hear tv commentators talking about prolonged bad luck or they never gave up. They are always broadcasting for a losing club. Those only get pulled out when they are at a loss for other things to talk about. I think this situation applies for us right now though. So go with it for a little bit. Lol.
That was very well put, Joel. I'm just not sure I can persuade myself to "go with it" once again when "going with it" has led me straight down the path to bitter disappointments so very many times before. This is all depressingly familiar and familiarly depressing.
I disagree. The quality of the players is below par and that is the GM's fault. A manager can only get the best he can from the players given. And this group is below par. There is some real potential as I see it with Pratto, Samad Taylor, MJ, Witt of course, and maybe even Isbel. But until they get some dominant pitching they are not going to win consistently.
I offered no criticism of the manager. It's far too early yet to make any sort of final "pro or con" decision on him. Couldn't agree with you more about the quality of players but the big question is: which GM's fault is it?
Doing our best is all any of us can control. The outcome is not in our hands. Let’s give these young men some grace, BassPlayerDude.
After Sunday's loss the Royals were on pace to lose 119 games, threatening the 1962 Mets' record for futility with 120 losses. An uncomfortable question presents itself but it needs to be asked by all honest fans: at what point is it time to say "well, this attempt at a rebuild was a miserable flop. Time to blow it up and start all over again."
I'm definitely NOT saying that we're there yet. I definitely AM saying that it's not difficult to see that point from where we are right now. That would involve giving up on our cherished (and highly overblown) dreams of immortal glory for players like Singer and MJ and BWJ and Lynch. That won't be fun or easy but it's probably going to happen one way or another, whether during this attempt at a rebuild or the next one.
lol, lol; This is totally not meant to be sarcastic but what is there to blow up?
From my point of view there isn't anything to blow up - That's the saddest part of this miserable tale.
I think it’s a mistake to believe that any player can reach “immortal glory.” I don’t care who they are. That probably isn’t going to happen.
A better approach: Accept players for what they are and set realistic definitions of success.
You’re hearing a lot of people complain about Q huh? Interesting. I think he’s leaned a little too lenient….only with some of the miscues we’ve seen. If it happens once fine, but 4 times…come on. Maybe that’s just what it feels like on this team though. I don’t think he’s done a bad job. Maybe not great, but not bad. Look when you’re 19-52 someone needs to take the blame. It’s just a weird situation all around. I guess Q could get some of that so it makes some sense. It’s a unique situation in that people are not happy….but nobody is 100% sure whose fault it is either. I’ve seen Q, JJ, and Sherman. It just unique right now. The players are very clearly not good enough though.
Which brings me to the next observation from your article. A logjam on a 19-52 team…is that a real thing? Olivares needs to go for a lottery ticket. It’s just time, but that’s my opinion. Stop waiting for the perfect offer if you are on that one and do it sooner rather than later. I think everyone fear early that nobody wanted to really talk about yet was if this group was good enough. It’s one season, and you don’t give up on guys these young but that fear is pretty close to reality at this point. The only real questions are how they get addressed and how long it takes now.
Oh yeah, there are A TON of complaints. Maybe it's just a vocal minority, but it's a lot. I maintain that it's hard to place too much blame, though I understand at least some of the frustration with all of the key players.
It's absolutely a real thing. I'm not saying they have 14 good players who need to play every day, but they have that many young players who we need to see what they can do. Personally, I don't care if they give Blanco a real shot or not, but I'm not upset if they do, but I think you can argue that the rest of them should be given some time and there are only so many spots to put them.
I think Olivares should go as well, but I also wouldn't just trade him for the first offer. A .750 OPS over the last two years is nothing to sneeze at and I think there's value for a contender. I'd be shopping him HARD though.
So, I’ve heard people talk in the past about how excited they are for Drew Waters and how good he is. It’s been rough, and I’m not sure I can see some of the things others are seeing. I’m not saying it was a bad trade or anything. I think you do it again. And maybe it’s just a bad start. 150 career MLB plate appearances is not enough to make a decision. But I’m also not sure he’s the guy you can be depending on being your best outfielder either. It’s entirely possible I’ve just seen a few at bats over the weekend and the timing was bad but my concern level is up a little bit with him.
He looks awful at the plate right now. I do think he's a streaky hitter, so there might be a two-week stretch where he looks like an MVP and it all balances out, but I'm not loving what I'm seeing from him.
May I have a pet peeve or maybe it’s just my imagination but I get irritated when balls get hit to the infield when they are probably sure outs, it looks like a lot of batters run like they are sure outs too. I was not a Pete Rose fan but I admired that he ran every batted ball out period. I don’t know if it would make any difference or not, it just looks like they are a tad bit complacent. It also might be that since they are losing, I’m nit picking and just looking for things to get P.O.’d at. Maybe if they start to turn it around, I’ll stop looking for things to nit pick. Thank you, I’ll now step down off my soap box.
So I see both sides. Bust it down the line on a play that's an out 999 times out of 1000, pop a hamstring and miss eight weeks and you feel silly for it. But don't bust it, the ball gets bobbled and you still get thrown out and you feel silly. Some days I get super annoyed. Others, I get it completely. Depends on when you mention it. Right now, I get it completely.
I loved Charlie hustle when I was a kid. I have unfortunately half watched almost all of these games and have been impressed with the royals hustle. A couple times players didn't leg it,
but who hasn't hustled in general?
Haven't seen every play, but I am curious. I will say I think Mj looks a little laxidasical at times, but that might just be his chill confidence vibe, idk
This team is simply inefficient; players and coaches alike. As an example (and there are several but I'll mention a few here); a hit for us with RISP is like the full-size spare tire - you remember seeing them as a kid, but you haven't seen them yourself in years.
Coaching-wise example; I still can't get the BWJ pick off at third from a few weeks ago out of my head. And I'm not even mad at BWJ - the third base Coaches ONLY real job in that case, especially with a large lead off like that, is to watch for the pick move and he wasn't even looking in the right direction.
In sports and life, little things always lead to big things. They are playing the game at the highest level of competition in the Universe. One little thing and you may be okay, two, you still may have a shot, three and you can almost kiss it goodbye. Little things, to me, is mostly Coaching. I don't know if it's entirely Q, but it's this staff and he's the one who put it together. So he's responsible for the product. Now do I think you send him packing??? I would definitely put him on notice that if they don't clean up the little things then he can start planning a little vacation.
I think a team 33 games under .500 on June 18 is inherently inefficient. At some point, though, doesn't the blame have to be on the player? I just think it gets a little lazy to blame Vance Wilson for a professional to not be aware of a back pick.
I do completely agree the little things can lead to the big things. No argument here on that. But also, you have to be able to do the big things for the little things to matter. I think Q probably leans a little too player friendly just from the outside looking in and that needs to change because we also don't know what is being preached day in and day out. I have a hunch they aren't sitting around sharing lollipops and then going out to play a game at 7:10 every night. He's responsible for the product on the field, sure, and if it never turns around, he's going to be the one to pay just like Matheny was the one to pay, but I think if you're doing things like managing the people well, the rest can be figured out.
I do understand the perspective that at some point it falls on the player; but in my opinion the that is a hard no; from a fan and Coach's perspective. I've been fortunate to Coach football for 20 years and I've won some/lost some, just like all Coaches. And I've been fortunate to achieve a few accomplishments that not all Coaches do; multiple district and conference championships, multiple undefeated seasons and a National Championship.
When my assistants would tell me that the kids weren't hearing the message I told them to find a different way to express the message. If they still don't get the message because they want to be stubborn, then find a different player. I've never taken the old "he just doesn't get it" excuse - if he doesn't get it you're either not speaking his language or he'll never get it so move on.
As for Vance Wilson; I don't think it's lazy to blame him for that play, it would be lazy to blame him for everything. Unless the 3b Coach has a different responsibility in that situation (and if he does, then it adds to Q's issues - who else would be responsible for it?
what else could he be responsible for on that play that's more important?), then yes, he is absolutely responsible for that play which is my entire point. It's the highest level - if you're a big league Coach you can ALWAYS fulfill your basic responsibilities. Yes, you may send a guy from 3d and he doesn't make it - that's a judgement call. In Royals history we have plenty of possibly bad judgement calls from 3d base Coaches. However, if you don't hold your Coaches accountable for fundamentals then I promise you that your players are taking notice and the reins get a little looser - which is another little thing...
I hear you on this; "But also, you have to be able to do the big things for the little things to matter." but I disagree on that most of the time - when you do the little things consistently you don't need big things near as much. We can play a great game and they can play a great game and win. They can win because they have bigger dogs than we do - okay - I can live with that. I can't live with beating ourselves which to me, comes down to Coaching. Otherwise, every time we saw yet another "dream team" they would always win it all - that rarely happens.
I think 3rd B and coaching staff were retained prior to Q, I am eyeing them both
<Morgan Freeman voice>
“This is when it was pretty clear the Royals were going to lose their 11th game in a row. But baseball is weird sometimes.“
I was personally disappointed in the Sunday game - I really wanted that win to ?maybe? get us into a short lived winning streak/mentality
I REALLY liked that collective run thanks to the middle of lineup rookies working together for the first run in the 2nd. Garcia with a double, Taylor sac bunts him to 3rd, then Fermin (older rookie) drives him in - That is fun!
Liking BWJ approach and how can you hate on that Cox outing?
Yeah, it sux now, but if I squint into the future.....