We are at the point in the year…and we have been for a while…that entertaining me is more important than winning. Lol. Turned a game on this weekend and it was fun. Felt like they had a chance. So maybe that’s progress or maybe that’s just the up and down of a season. Who knows, but I’ll take it.
You didn’t touch on this but Freddie Fermin. If I’m going to believe things are different now, I really need to see a catcher traded this offseason. I don’t care if it’s Salvy (hopefully groundwork laid), I don’t care if it is Fermin. But he’s sporting an OPS of almost .900. Is it real? I don’t know, I think he can be an average hitter at this point. But what can’t happen, is having both on the roster and wasting the value of both again. Fermin is 28 going to be 29 next year. If you can turn him into something this offseason (not just trade to trade, but help out in other areas) you have to do it and role with Salvy. Or you have to get something for Salvy and role with Fermin. He’s on the backend of his peak already, decision needs to be made this offseason. I see that, I’ll have more confidence.
Yeah, I wanted to get more into Fermin, but looked up and figured I was far too deep into the article. I'll push back a little that they don't *have* to trade one of the two of them. But they need to either decide Fermin is for real and get him 500 plate appearances, mostly as a catcher because he's so good defensively, or move him.
There is room for him and Salvy on the roster, but there isn't room for those two and certain guys. Nick Pratto doesn't have a place with those two and Pasquantino, for example. So they need to move someone. I'm kind of thinking those Salvy discussions come back around and he's the guy, but it just has to be someone. You can't find this kind of performance from Fermin and not shuffle to make it work moving forward.
Is it for real? I think the 141 wRC+ is probably a bit inflated, but as I've said before, he hit .279/.356/.446 in AA in 2021, he hit .270/.365/.480 in AAA last year. He hit .304/.448/.674 in AAA this year. He was the winter league MVP in Venezuela. There's a track record of success.
I agree, you don’t have to trade him….but agree if you keep both of them someone else has to go. We can’t just keep hanging on to guys. Fermin has provided us a gift. If that gift, is the ability to turn a 28 yo catcher into something else that will help the team be better, then please do it. If that is starting him and moving Salvy to get better. Has to be done. If it is keeping both of them (i don’t love that idea though), then time to move on from Pratto. We’ve said all along, it doesn’t really matter “which ones” move forward in this evaluation…as long as some move forward. Right now Garcia and Fermin have moved forward. That’s ok, but now, if you have multiple guys for a spot, I need to see the next step for the FO. Nothing we can do till this offseason, I’m just saying, Fermin has provided a spot of strength to move from. At 28/29…you can’t keep waiting, feels like that decision has to come this offseason.
Sure. If I had to guess, I'd say Salvy is gone next season. I'm probably like 55/45 on that, so not hugely on that side, but a lot more than I've ever been before. I'm just saying that it doesn't *have* to be Fermin or Salvy.
I actually hope it is Salvy. I appreciate Salvy and enjoy everything he has done. But if the FO moves him, that’s showing something different to me. Because now they are finally looking at a 33/34 yo catcher/first baseman and not the history of him. Really wish, really wish, they would have gotten it done at the deadline.
The Marlins interest is real and I wouldn't be too surprised if other teams jump in now that there's a crack in the door to get in. I think it was a super convoluted deal and just couldn't get done in time. I had someone tell me this weekend that if the deadline was at midnight like it used to be that Salvy would be gone.
Would certainly help MJ if we stop flipping him between LF and RF. He’s learning a new position. Huge difference in angles and reading fly balls in LF & RF. However, at this point I would live with sub par defense in both corners if they had some power and could hit over .225 We are still living with Dayton’s “athletes”, track stars that can’t hit
Murray already stole my thunder, but why not let ZG bat yesterday, what was it going to hurt. I would go even farther and let him DH in some game before the season is over. I'm with you on seeing some pitchers called up to just see what they can do. Maybe even a couple of position players, just to see what they can do . We don't need to be playing Duffy or Beatty any more. They are not part of the future. I got a kick out of White Sox Indians brawl.
Yeah, I would have let Greinke bat, but they had a chance to win a game. Greinke's a great hitting pitcher but he's a career .225/.262/.336 hitter and has two plate appearances in the last four years. The Phillies are fighting for a playoff spot and I think there's something to be said for playing the game to win in that situation. That said, would they have let Greinke hit against the A's? I don't know. I think I'd be more frustrated if they did the same thing in a game that mattered to nobody.
Royals DH have hit .237/.299/.371, so close-ish, but still better. I mean, I totally get it. I don't know if that was the thought process, but I'm honestly fine with it if it was.
Here is a question for ya. Big picture question. Of Garcia, Fermin, Massey, Pratto, Vinny, Witt, Waters, Isbel, MJ….we’ll say those 9 on offense. Of that group I’d say Witt, Garcia, and Fermin has taken steps forward. So 3. Of that group 6 have not taken steps forward (still time). So 1/3. What would have been the expectation going into the year? Everyone always thinks everyone will take that step. But 50% would have been reasonable right?
That's a good point. You want everyone to take a step, but that's just not realistic. I also don't think it's fair to say that Vinnie didn't take a step forward. I mean, there are questions about him with the injury, but the guy proved he's a very good big league hitter. Now you're at four. Massey has been a better than league average hitter since May and a very good defender. I'd say he's taken at least a half-step forward but he's weighed down badly by April. But even if you don't, he's at least incomplete. So I think 4-6 of them is reasonable and I think they're kind of in that range.
I’d be fine saying Vinnie yes and Massey incomplete. When I was thinking about it was along those lines too. So if we are kind of in line with expectations on offense….then it still really comes down to the pitching.
The reality is they need to figure out the bullpen from basically top to bottom and then need at least three starters. That's a tall task, but the bullpen part can actually get done in one winter if you have a few guys step up over these last couple of months. The rotation is Singer and then a bunch of questions, and if Singer is traded, it's just a bunch of questions. I'm not comfortable saying Ragans is a guy yet, but I might be in two months. Maybe Marsh figures some things out. Maybe someone else steps up. We just don't know that part yet, so there's still a lot to learn and do.
"But on the bright side, it looks like we should get Zack Greinke vs. Adam Wainwright, so maybe you can feel a little younger for a day."
But what if we're eight to 10 years older than both of them? I'm actually reminded by watching them (especially given their collective lack of success this season) that I'm older; I in NO WAY feel younger about it. :)
Saw the reports about the White Sox' legitimate interest in Salvy and just wanted to point out that the biggest Salvy haters have traditionally been Grandal-loving Sox fans. Too funny that they made such a big push to trade for him.
Yeah, that's pretty hilarious. I'm skeptical about that interest because I think it's very Grifol-based and I'm not convinced he's going to be there too long.
Thought you might write today after Ragans outing.
People are a bit hesitant to believe it. But I’m there, I’ve seen enough. He’s our version of Springs. Kudos first off, to Ragans and having the ability and willingness to learn a new pitch. Heaven knows we’ve seen the other side. Kudos to the scouting and JJ’s front office. They needed a win. It’s been a pretty solid week for them and they needed it. I don’t need an ace, but he’s a dude for the rotation with Singer and I’ve seen enough potential for more yet and his confidence building. Only thing that will hold it back is injury, which like all pitchers is always possible (especially with injury history already).
For a fan base that celebrates the fact that front offices talk about trading guys (really guys, we are celebrating what all front offices should be a basic part of the job) this is a huge win, for signing Chapman, identifying someone who has the stuff, identifying the problem, solving the problem, and utilizing the right way. They’ve shown it can be done now. I harp on this FO enough, I’ll give credit where credit is due…for a 110 loss team anyway. Lol.
I had some stuff come up, so didn't have a chance to write. But it was very impressive and I'm doing everything I can not to be completely in after three starts just because I know how sample sizes work, but everything he's shown has been excellent.
I wouldn’t be all in if the command wasn’t there. But 4 walks in 17 innings is very much going to play for a guy with 4…5ish pitches. The thing is, he doesn’t even need to throw 95 with a 5 pitch mix as a lefty as long as the command is there. I want to believe in Marsh because of the stuff…but I’ve never seen the command. I’ve seen enough to believe with Ragans already. Could be jumping the gun, but they have identified something and you can see the confidence building. A pitcher with plus stuff, command, and a belief he belongs all at the same time is a powerful thing. Next step, consistency.
Absolutely. It's a lot easier to buy a guy who throws strikes than one who doesn't. He's also gotten more grounders with the Royals than he did in Texas, which may be a sample size thing, but the Royals have one of the better infield defenses in baseball, so that doesn't hurt either.
We are at the point in the year…and we have been for a while…that entertaining me is more important than winning. Lol. Turned a game on this weekend and it was fun. Felt like they had a chance. So maybe that’s progress or maybe that’s just the up and down of a season. Who knows, but I’ll take it.
You didn’t touch on this but Freddie Fermin. If I’m going to believe things are different now, I really need to see a catcher traded this offseason. I don’t care if it’s Salvy (hopefully groundwork laid), I don’t care if it is Fermin. But he’s sporting an OPS of almost .900. Is it real? I don’t know, I think he can be an average hitter at this point. But what can’t happen, is having both on the roster and wasting the value of both again. Fermin is 28 going to be 29 next year. If you can turn him into something this offseason (not just trade to trade, but help out in other areas) you have to do it and role with Salvy. Or you have to get something for Salvy and role with Fermin. He’s on the backend of his peak already, decision needs to be made this offseason. I see that, I’ll have more confidence.
Yeah, I wanted to get more into Fermin, but looked up and figured I was far too deep into the article. I'll push back a little that they don't *have* to trade one of the two of them. But they need to either decide Fermin is for real and get him 500 plate appearances, mostly as a catcher because he's so good defensively, or move him.
There is room for him and Salvy on the roster, but there isn't room for those two and certain guys. Nick Pratto doesn't have a place with those two and Pasquantino, for example. So they need to move someone. I'm kind of thinking those Salvy discussions come back around and he's the guy, but it just has to be someone. You can't find this kind of performance from Fermin and not shuffle to make it work moving forward.
Is it for real? I think the 141 wRC+ is probably a bit inflated, but as I've said before, he hit .279/.356/.446 in AA in 2021, he hit .270/.365/.480 in AAA last year. He hit .304/.448/.674 in AAA this year. He was the winter league MVP in Venezuela. There's a track record of success.
I agree, you don’t have to trade him….but agree if you keep both of them someone else has to go. We can’t just keep hanging on to guys. Fermin has provided us a gift. If that gift, is the ability to turn a 28 yo catcher into something else that will help the team be better, then please do it. If that is starting him and moving Salvy to get better. Has to be done. If it is keeping both of them (i don’t love that idea though), then time to move on from Pratto. We’ve said all along, it doesn’t really matter “which ones” move forward in this evaluation…as long as some move forward. Right now Garcia and Fermin have moved forward. That’s ok, but now, if you have multiple guys for a spot, I need to see the next step for the FO. Nothing we can do till this offseason, I’m just saying, Fermin has provided a spot of strength to move from. At 28/29…you can’t keep waiting, feels like that decision has to come this offseason.
And Fermin is a cool story to root for this year!
Sure. If I had to guess, I'd say Salvy is gone next season. I'm probably like 55/45 on that, so not hugely on that side, but a lot more than I've ever been before. I'm just saying that it doesn't *have* to be Fermin or Salvy.
I actually hope it is Salvy. I appreciate Salvy and enjoy everything he has done. But if the FO moves him, that’s showing something different to me. Because now they are finally looking at a 33/34 yo catcher/first baseman and not the history of him. Really wish, really wish, they would have gotten it done at the deadline.
The Marlins interest is real and I wouldn't be too surprised if other teams jump in now that there's a crack in the door to get in. I think it was a super convoluted deal and just couldn't get done in time. I had someone tell me this weekend that if the deadline was at midnight like it used to be that Salvy would be gone.
Yes, the Royals are more fun on the bases and defensively in certain positions, but not letting Zack bat? Big letdown.
That was definitely disappointing.
Would certainly help MJ if we stop flipping him between LF and RF. He’s learning a new position. Huge difference in angles and reading fly balls in LF & RF. However, at this point I would live with sub par defense in both corners if they had some power and could hit over .225 We are still living with Dayton’s “athletes”, track stars that can’t hit
Murray already stole my thunder, but why not let ZG bat yesterday, what was it going to hurt. I would go even farther and let him DH in some game before the season is over. I'm with you on seeing some pitchers called up to just see what they can do. Maybe even a couple of position players, just to see what they can do . We don't need to be playing Duffy or Beatty any more. They are not part of the future. I got a kick out of White Sox Indians brawl.
Yeah, I would have let Greinke bat, but they had a chance to win a game. Greinke's a great hitting pitcher but he's a career .225/.262/.336 hitter and has two plate appearances in the last four years. The Phillies are fighting for a playoff spot and I think there's something to be said for playing the game to win in that situation. That said, would they have let Greinke hit against the A's? I don't know. I think I'd be more frustrated if they did the same thing in a game that mattered to nobody.
That's probably close to what our DH position has hit this year.
Royals DH have hit .237/.299/.371, so close-ish, but still better. I mean, I totally get it. I don't know if that was the thought process, but I'm honestly fine with it if it was.
Bring up Loften and Gentry....or whomever. Let them get acclimatized so they can come to spring training with an opportunity to stick.
Here is a question for ya. Big picture question. Of Garcia, Fermin, Massey, Pratto, Vinny, Witt, Waters, Isbel, MJ….we’ll say those 9 on offense. Of that group I’d say Witt, Garcia, and Fermin has taken steps forward. So 3. Of that group 6 have not taken steps forward (still time). So 1/3. What would have been the expectation going into the year? Everyone always thinks everyone will take that step. But 50% would have been reasonable right?
That's a good point. You want everyone to take a step, but that's just not realistic. I also don't think it's fair to say that Vinnie didn't take a step forward. I mean, there are questions about him with the injury, but the guy proved he's a very good big league hitter. Now you're at four. Massey has been a better than league average hitter since May and a very good defender. I'd say he's taken at least a half-step forward but he's weighed down badly by April. But even if you don't, he's at least incomplete. So I think 4-6 of them is reasonable and I think they're kind of in that range.
I’d be fine saying Vinnie yes and Massey incomplete. When I was thinking about it was along those lines too. So if we are kind of in line with expectations on offense….then it still really comes down to the pitching.
The reality is they need to figure out the bullpen from basically top to bottom and then need at least three starters. That's a tall task, but the bullpen part can actually get done in one winter if you have a few guys step up over these last couple of months. The rotation is Singer and then a bunch of questions, and if Singer is traded, it's just a bunch of questions. I'm not comfortable saying Ragans is a guy yet, but I might be in two months. Maybe Marsh figures some things out. Maybe someone else steps up. We just don't know that part yet, so there's still a lot to learn and do.
"But on the bright side, it looks like we should get Zack Greinke vs. Adam Wainwright, so maybe you can feel a little younger for a day."
But what if we're eight to 10 years older than both of them? I'm actually reminded by watching them (especially given their collective lack of success this season) that I'm older; I in NO WAY feel younger about it. :)
When you're usually 20 years older than the pitchers, now you're "only" 10!
Saw the reports about the White Sox' legitimate interest in Salvy and just wanted to point out that the biggest Salvy haters have traditionally been Grandal-loving Sox fans. Too funny that they made such a big push to trade for him.
Yeah, that's pretty hilarious. I'm skeptical about that interest because I think it's very Grifol-based and I'm not convinced he's going to be there too long.
Thought you might write today after Ragans outing.
People are a bit hesitant to believe it. But I’m there, I’ve seen enough. He’s our version of Springs. Kudos first off, to Ragans and having the ability and willingness to learn a new pitch. Heaven knows we’ve seen the other side. Kudos to the scouting and JJ’s front office. They needed a win. It’s been a pretty solid week for them and they needed it. I don’t need an ace, but he’s a dude for the rotation with Singer and I’ve seen enough potential for more yet and his confidence building. Only thing that will hold it back is injury, which like all pitchers is always possible (especially with injury history already).
For a fan base that celebrates the fact that front offices talk about trading guys (really guys, we are celebrating what all front offices should be a basic part of the job) this is a huge win, for signing Chapman, identifying someone who has the stuff, identifying the problem, solving the problem, and utilizing the right way. They’ve shown it can be done now. I harp on this FO enough, I’ll give credit where credit is due…for a 110 loss team anyway. Lol.
I had some stuff come up, so didn't have a chance to write. But it was very impressive and I'm doing everything I can not to be completely in after three starts just because I know how sample sizes work, but everything he's shown has been excellent.
I wouldn’t be all in if the command wasn’t there. But 4 walks in 17 innings is very much going to play for a guy with 4…5ish pitches. The thing is, he doesn’t even need to throw 95 with a 5 pitch mix as a lefty as long as the command is there. I want to believe in Marsh because of the stuff…but I’ve never seen the command. I’ve seen enough to believe with Ragans already. Could be jumping the gun, but they have identified something and you can see the confidence building. A pitcher with plus stuff, command, and a belief he belongs all at the same time is a powerful thing. Next step, consistency.
Absolutely. It's a lot easier to buy a guy who throws strikes than one who doesn't. He's also gotten more grounders with the Royals than he did in Texas, which may be a sample size thing, but the Royals have one of the better infield defenses in baseball, so that doesn't hurt either.