David - I have a confession to make: for the first time since just before the All-Star break I devoted 30 seconds to the Royals this morning: I looked briefly at the AL Central standings. What I saw was truly horrifying.
Even in the putrid AL Central, the Royals aren't 13 games out of first place. They're 13 games out of NEXT-TO-LAST place. I'm extremely embarrassed to admit that I even bothered. At least my decision to disconnect from this team was once again thoroughly confirmed.
I kinda think it’s time we accept Singer for what he is. The back of his baseball cards is telling us he is what you said in the article….an average to slightly above average starting pitcher. That’s fine, it’s probably time for me to just accept that.
IDK David, I think the coaching staff gets a pass. But where I’m torn at is that I’m also just kind of at the point that just tear it to the studs and start over. And I mean start over with everyone, and everything. Front office, coaches, scouts, cleaning crew, field maintenance…whoever at this point. Yes, I think the coaches should still get a pass…but man, at the same time, just EVERYTHIING new. Give me a fresh start. Yes, I know they have made changes and doing things in what sounds like a better way….but they are worse than the A’s. Does that matter? No, not really….but yet the A’s are trying to tear down the roster and not even trying…so it does in a little way I guess. IDK, I think this whole paragraph just means I’m closer to throwing up my hands and just saying change it all. Lol. I just feel like it would be so much more palatable to lose 100 games next year with a new FO in place. No need to comment, just the frustration setting in.
Tell me again that it really is hard to lose 100 games…….
Yeah, I just think Singer is who he is. And yep, it's fine. You can win with Brady Singer in your rotation. And if he wanted to sign for four years and like $35 million, sure, I'd take the extra year, but I'm not rushing to sign this guy and I'm glad they didn't. Honestly, seems like a good call.
I don't think it's crazy to say that they need a teardown. If you want to argue that anyone who was here before 2023 should go, how can I argue? I would argue a bit with new guys and I think I'd actually be interested to see what Paul Gibson can continue too, but that's just me. One minor quibble. The A's are still worse. For now.
Yep, I’m still hopeful that Singer is one of the guys the Royals are “creative” with…either here in the next week or this offseason. We’ll see.
Maybe some of the frustration along with all this losing…is that I do think they need to get out of the box on some moves and do some deals they wouldn’t have done in the past. I don’t know what it is. I just think the way things have gone don’t exactly line up for that either this next week. Nobody they really could have moved going into the year to be creative has really done well enough to even do anything creative…so we are just……stuck it feels like. Terrible feeling stuck. Lol.
Like I wrote, if you get a team interested in Singer, I think you move him when you can. But I also don't foresee him getting terribly expensive anymore, so if you hang on to him and keep 175 fine innings a year, then so be it. But I agree. I think they'd have been happy to be creative with Melendez or Isbel or even Waters, but nobody has really given them that option. Then it becomes the question of if it's worth it to trade at a lower value, which I don't think it is with any of them certainly.
Where they can get creative, but I haven't heard anything about so maybe not, is Massey and maybe Fermin. I could see markets for either or both of those guys. But Fermin's track record is remarkably short and Massey is okay enough but nobody anyone is going to give enough for. But the Dodgers are also playing Mookie Betts at second base. A lot. He's actually rated well there, but maybe they're wanting to get him back to the outfield.
Just catching up on this. The one thing I thought about with Massey is that Lopez might actually hurt his trade value. If the dodgers come calling….they may be more interested in Lopez at second for the smaller price tag than Massey for example. Frankly, if Salvy is staying around and someone offers you something worthwhile for Fermin, he should go. I guess you could literally say that about any Royals player right now though.
I could see a team like the Dodgers being more into Lopez just because of needs. But I’m sure a team (with a shorter porch maybe) could get something out of Massey that may never be possible playing half his games in KC.
Moose didn't get sent down until 2014, his third full season and fourth year. Gordon didn't get sent down until late in 2009, his third full season. People always seem to think they were sent down a lot quicker, but they weren't.
I appreciate you giving a nod to the effort and the work being done. Look, this is terrible, we all see that…the season has been a disappointment from the very first series, and it is what it is. But as a fan that doesn’t have the ability (or desire) to just check out and come back when they’re good, pointing out the little life-rafts of positive moments and the continued effort/learning help keep me sane while watching this. I do hope young starters get more run down the stretch to hopefully see if there’s more there. I’m still the nutso fan that thinks if Marsh, Ragans, or a couple other names could show something, and if the young hitters are getting there growing pains out of the way now, and if the FO spends some this winter to appease the stadium vote…man, that’s a lot of if’s…anyway, thanks for sprinkling in the positives.
I'd really like to see Ragans back up and I think he will be soon enough. I think they need to get a look at Veneziano and even Bowlan. Hopefully we'll start to see those guys get more of a shot here soon.
So many "fans" like to think that if a player isn't performing up to the desired level it must be for lack of effort. Obviously that's a thing that does happen, but usually I think it's just that baseball is really hard. I appreciate David taking the time to note the work these guys have been putting in.
That's part of what drives me nuts. The idea that they don't care drives me nuts and would drive anyone nuts if they had a chance to see the work put in. I honestly didn't even realize the extent of it. There are absolutely some Jeff Kings out there (and probably some on the Royals right now), but most of these guys are beyond dedicated and work their derrieres off.
I echo this sentiment. I wondered how you could spin this weekend into anything I’d want to read, and you managed it while still being honest and realistic.
The baserunning has been driving me crazy. The fact that it’s statistically not that bad is surprising. I wonder if what makes it FEEL like it’s bottom-of-the-pack is that it’s nearly always tied to a loss, and often to a close one.
I appreciate your perspective and the hard work you put into your analyses. I do think there is a significant difference between where the DBacks and Orioles were two or three years ago and the current status of our farm system (rated 29th on one service and no higher than 26th on others despite having high draft choices almost every year. I believe it was ESPN that gave the organization an F-). I simply don’t believe in more than 3 or 4 current players (certainly not Melendez and Pratto) and, with the universally low farm system ratings, I don’t see a competitive team for 3-5 years. That’s very sad for all Royals fans, especially those of us who hopped on the bandwagon in 1969.
There is absolutely a difference. I also think it's worth noting that Keith Law had Baltimore as the #18 farm system to start the 2021 season. He did have the Diamondbacks fifth. But the Royals were also 8th heading into last year on MLB Pipeline and 7th for Law. I'm not saying they're going to follow the path of those teams, but I am saying that it was a lot bleaker for them two years ago than anyone would believe today.
I’m not as worried about the farm system actually. I mean it’s not good. But they will get quality big leaguers out of people in the farm system. Enough? Maybe not. The big problem is the top echelon prospects aren’t really in the system. The difference makers I guess you say. But they promoted a bunch so while it’s not good. It’s not as terrible either. Now, if they don’t restock here….then we have a problem.
When comparing the the Orioles and DBacks….didn’t they blow it up around that time too and clean house. That’s kind of the big difference I’m seeing. And the Royals kinda sort of are…but I could see it taking a year longer because they didn’t really clean house last offseason even with JJ moving up. I could see them doing that this season…but then the question becomes do we hope for an Orioles/DBacks type turn around maybe a year later than what they are doing?
They promoted the stars. They haven't been stars. That's the bigger issue. If Witt/MJ/Pratto/Vinnie were playing like we thought they would (or just playing with Vinnie) and Massey was a nice role player with Garcia coming on, it's a very different feeling.
Both those teams did make changes. I don't remember how much the Diamondbacks cleaned house, but they did bring in Mike Hazen. The Orioles cleaned house. I probably should have been more clear that I don't think the Royals are going to do what they did, but rather that their fans wouldn't have bought that they would two years ago either. That's all I was saying. Things can actually turn around fast with the right plan in place. I don't think the Royals have that right plan in place, but Orioles and Diamondbacks fans didn't think their teams did either. That's all I was getting at with that.
Appreciate your infusion of positivity. I think in a year when ownership has said we’re evaluating, it is important to see which players are doing the work and if it is effective - I assume the coaches have told the players the same thing.
At this point I’d rather watch Witt get thrown out because he’s learning how fast the game is played at this level, or young pitchers get their footing and how they rebound after getting knocked around.
I honestly appreciate your optimism and happiness about the Royals doing their work. I just don’t know where I am with this team anymore. Part of me thinks: tear it down to the studs. Other part can see some of these players on a legitimately good Royals team. I think Witt and Garcia can be a championship left side of the infield. I think Marsh and Ragans could be lockdown relievers. I think Singer could be a lights out closer. But a dollar and what I think gets you a dollar. I just don’t know anymore.
Sort of depends on the day for me too. Some days I see enough from enough guys to think “okay yeah maybe” and then other days (most days?) I just can’t get there.
As bad as the Royals are playing this year, how does one explain the success of Merrifield BA .299, Soler BA .245 HR 24 RBI 54, Santana BA .237 HR 11 RBI 52, O'Hearn BA .311 HR 8 RBI 32 and Rivera BA .290 HR 3 RBI 22. I realize the Royals need to look to the future but...............
Merrifield's got an empty batting average that isn't supported by peripherals. Soler was traded two years ago and has been off and on good. Santana had a 101 wRC+ for the Royals last year and is 99 wRC+ this year. O'Hearn has a .728 OPS since June 20. I don't especially care about any of them.
David - I have a confession to make: for the first time since just before the All-Star break I devoted 30 seconds to the Royals this morning: I looked briefly at the AL Central standings. What I saw was truly horrifying.
Even in the putrid AL Central, the Royals aren't 13 games out of first place. They're 13 games out of NEXT-TO-LAST place. I'm extremely embarrassed to admit that I even bothered. At least my decision to disconnect from this team was once again thoroughly confirmed.
I kinda think it’s time we accept Singer for what he is. The back of his baseball cards is telling us he is what you said in the article….an average to slightly above average starting pitcher. That’s fine, it’s probably time for me to just accept that.
IDK David, I think the coaching staff gets a pass. But where I’m torn at is that I’m also just kind of at the point that just tear it to the studs and start over. And I mean start over with everyone, and everything. Front office, coaches, scouts, cleaning crew, field maintenance…whoever at this point. Yes, I think the coaches should still get a pass…but man, at the same time, just EVERYTHIING new. Give me a fresh start. Yes, I know they have made changes and doing things in what sounds like a better way….but they are worse than the A’s. Does that matter? No, not really….but yet the A’s are trying to tear down the roster and not even trying…so it does in a little way I guess. IDK, I think this whole paragraph just means I’m closer to throwing up my hands and just saying change it all. Lol. I just feel like it would be so much more palatable to lose 100 games next year with a new FO in place. No need to comment, just the frustration setting in.
Tell me again that it really is hard to lose 100 games…….
Yeah, I just think Singer is who he is. And yep, it's fine. You can win with Brady Singer in your rotation. And if he wanted to sign for four years and like $35 million, sure, I'd take the extra year, but I'm not rushing to sign this guy and I'm glad they didn't. Honestly, seems like a good call.
I don't think it's crazy to say that they need a teardown. If you want to argue that anyone who was here before 2023 should go, how can I argue? I would argue a bit with new guys and I think I'd actually be interested to see what Paul Gibson can continue too, but that's just me. One minor quibble. The A's are still worse. For now.
Yep, I’m still hopeful that Singer is one of the guys the Royals are “creative” with…either here in the next week or this offseason. We’ll see.
Maybe some of the frustration along with all this losing…is that I do think they need to get out of the box on some moves and do some deals they wouldn’t have done in the past. I don’t know what it is. I just think the way things have gone don’t exactly line up for that either this next week. Nobody they really could have moved going into the year to be creative has really done well enough to even do anything creative…so we are just……stuck it feels like. Terrible feeling stuck. Lol.
Like I wrote, if you get a team interested in Singer, I think you move him when you can. But I also don't foresee him getting terribly expensive anymore, so if you hang on to him and keep 175 fine innings a year, then so be it. But I agree. I think they'd have been happy to be creative with Melendez or Isbel or even Waters, but nobody has really given them that option. Then it becomes the question of if it's worth it to trade at a lower value, which I don't think it is with any of them certainly.
Where they can get creative, but I haven't heard anything about so maybe not, is Massey and maybe Fermin. I could see markets for either or both of those guys. But Fermin's track record is remarkably short and Massey is okay enough but nobody anyone is going to give enough for. But the Dodgers are also playing Mookie Betts at second base. A lot. He's actually rated well there, but maybe they're wanting to get him back to the outfield.
Just catching up on this. The one thing I thought about with Massey is that Lopez might actually hurt his trade value. If the dodgers come calling….they may be more interested in Lopez at second for the smaller price tag than Massey for example. Frankly, if Salvy is staying around and someone offers you something worthwhile for Fermin, he should go. I guess you could literally say that about any Royals player right now though.
I could see a team like the Dodgers being more into Lopez just because of needs. But I’m sure a team (with a shorter porch maybe) could get something out of Massey that may never be possible playing half his games in KC.
The Royals sent down Moustakis & Alex Gordon early in their careers. What is the holdup sending down MJ?
Moose didn't get sent down until 2014, his third full season and fourth year. Gordon didn't get sent down until late in 2009, his third full season. People always seem to think they were sent down a lot quicker, but they weren't.
I appreciate you giving a nod to the effort and the work being done. Look, this is terrible, we all see that…the season has been a disappointment from the very first series, and it is what it is. But as a fan that doesn’t have the ability (or desire) to just check out and come back when they’re good, pointing out the little life-rafts of positive moments and the continued effort/learning help keep me sane while watching this. I do hope young starters get more run down the stretch to hopefully see if there’s more there. I’m still the nutso fan that thinks if Marsh, Ragans, or a couple other names could show something, and if the young hitters are getting there growing pains out of the way now, and if the FO spends some this winter to appease the stadium vote…man, that’s a lot of if’s…anyway, thanks for sprinkling in the positives.
I'd really like to see Ragans back up and I think he will be soon enough. I think they need to get a look at Veneziano and even Bowlan. Hopefully we'll start to see those guys get more of a shot here soon.
So many "fans" like to think that if a player isn't performing up to the desired level it must be for lack of effort. Obviously that's a thing that does happen, but usually I think it's just that baseball is really hard. I appreciate David taking the time to note the work these guys have been putting in.
That's part of what drives me nuts. The idea that they don't care drives me nuts and would drive anyone nuts if they had a chance to see the work put in. I honestly didn't even realize the extent of it. There are absolutely some Jeff Kings out there (and probably some on the Royals right now), but most of these guys are beyond dedicated and work their derrieres off.
I echo this sentiment. I wondered how you could spin this weekend into anything I’d want to read, and you managed it while still being honest and realistic.
The baserunning has been driving me crazy. The fact that it’s statistically not that bad is surprising. I wonder if what makes it FEEL like it’s bottom-of-the-pack is that it’s nearly always tied to a loss, and often to a close one.
I appreciate your perspective and the hard work you put into your analyses. I do think there is a significant difference between where the DBacks and Orioles were two or three years ago and the current status of our farm system (rated 29th on one service and no higher than 26th on others despite having high draft choices almost every year. I believe it was ESPN that gave the organization an F-). I simply don’t believe in more than 3 or 4 current players (certainly not Melendez and Pratto) and, with the universally low farm system ratings, I don’t see a competitive team for 3-5 years. That’s very sad for all Royals fans, especially those of us who hopped on the bandwagon in 1969.
There is absolutely a difference. I also think it's worth noting that Keith Law had Baltimore as the #18 farm system to start the 2021 season. He did have the Diamondbacks fifth. But the Royals were also 8th heading into last year on MLB Pipeline and 7th for Law. I'm not saying they're going to follow the path of those teams, but I am saying that it was a lot bleaker for them two years ago than anyone would believe today.
I’m not as worried about the farm system actually. I mean it’s not good. But they will get quality big leaguers out of people in the farm system. Enough? Maybe not. The big problem is the top echelon prospects aren’t really in the system. The difference makers I guess you say. But they promoted a bunch so while it’s not good. It’s not as terrible either. Now, if they don’t restock here….then we have a problem.
When comparing the the Orioles and DBacks….didn’t they blow it up around that time too and clean house. That’s kind of the big difference I’m seeing. And the Royals kinda sort of are…but I could see it taking a year longer because they didn’t really clean house last offseason even with JJ moving up. I could see them doing that this season…but then the question becomes do we hope for an Orioles/DBacks type turn around maybe a year later than what they are doing?
They promoted the stars. They haven't been stars. That's the bigger issue. If Witt/MJ/Pratto/Vinnie were playing like we thought they would (or just playing with Vinnie) and Massey was a nice role player with Garcia coming on, it's a very different feeling.
Both those teams did make changes. I don't remember how much the Diamondbacks cleaned house, but they did bring in Mike Hazen. The Orioles cleaned house. I probably should have been more clear that I don't think the Royals are going to do what they did, but rather that their fans wouldn't have bought that they would two years ago either. That's all I was saying. Things can actually turn around fast with the right plan in place. I don't think the Royals have that right plan in place, but Orioles and Diamondbacks fans didn't think their teams did either. That's all I was getting at with that.
Appreciate your infusion of positivity. I think in a year when ownership has said we’re evaluating, it is important to see which players are doing the work and if it is effective - I assume the coaches have told the players the same thing.
At this point I’d rather watch Witt get thrown out because he’s learning how fast the game is played at this level, or young pitchers get their footing and how they rebound after getting knocked around.
I would generally think you're right about that. Plus, they all have a new boss on the field. Everyone wants to impress the new boss.
I honestly appreciate your optimism and happiness about the Royals doing their work. I just don’t know where I am with this team anymore. Part of me thinks: tear it down to the studs. Other part can see some of these players on a legitimately good Royals team. I think Witt and Garcia can be a championship left side of the infield. I think Marsh and Ragans could be lockdown relievers. I think Singer could be a lights out closer. But a dollar and what I think gets you a dollar. I just don’t know anymore.
Sort of depends on the day for me too. Some days I see enough from enough guys to think “okay yeah maybe” and then other days (most days?) I just can’t get there.
As bad as the Royals are playing this year, how does one explain the success of Merrifield BA .299, Soler BA .245 HR 24 RBI 54, Santana BA .237 HR 11 RBI 52, O'Hearn BA .311 HR 8 RBI 32 and Rivera BA .290 HR 3 RBI 22. I realize the Royals need to look to the future but...............
Merrifield's got an empty batting average that isn't supported by peripherals. Soler was traded two years ago and has been off and on good. Santana had a 101 wRC+ for the Royals last year and is 99 wRC+ this year. O'Hearn has a .728 OPS since June 20. I don't especially care about any of them.