Whew, so glad he caught that ball at his face. That would have been an awful end to his career. He's always been such a good fielder and it really saved his brain and his face. So happy to have had him back this year.
Love seeing Greinke back and in a Royals uniform. IDK about re-signing him for 13M again. Surely, that 13M can get you someone with a little more upside can’t it? In the end, a one year deal doesn’t really matter so its probably worth it and its not my money so you probably do it. He just doesn’t really excite me at this stage in his career. But the numbers are what they are and he was a valuable pitcher for the royals this year. If you are preaching strikes….he’s a good vet to have on the staff with how he doesn’t walk anyone.
But like I wrote, I don’t think it takes $13 million next year. At the same time, like you said, I don’t especially care how much one you costs on a one year deal. If they had four starters and needed one, I’d be fine letting him walk. But man, they need at least three guys. Hard to turn down what he’s done this year.
The combination of good vets and promising rookies is a good one, provided the vets can still play. It's working out very well for the Cardinals this year. I hope the Royals do bring back Zach. And yes, Waters should be a center piece in the outfield for years to come. Kind of an Amos Otis type player. Also, Massey reminds me a lot of Frank White. Some very good pieces to anchor the middle.
The biggest question for me in the middle is if Bobby Witt Jr. can play shortstop long-term. His error last night notwithstanding, he's been much better there over the last six weeks or so. If you can get Witt/Massey/Waters up the middle with Isbel as a solid fourth outfielder who is a great defender, I think you're looking pretty good there.
But as we've all discussed for awhile now, I don't think anyone is worried about the bats long term. Okay, that's not true. Some are, but I don't think there's a real reason to worry. It's all about pitching. Figure that out and I think things change fast.
I agree. The Royals need some pitching help from outside the organization. It's not reasonable to expect several pitchers to make the leap that Singer made this year. They need to sign a couple of league average pitchers who actually over perform their past record. Jason Vargas, Jeremy Guthrie were such pitchers during the last surge. Cueto and Shields were well above average pitchers to start with. The Mets brought in Bassett this year expecting a 4th or 5th starter and he surprised big time to the upside. The Royals need to catch that kind of lightning in a bottle.
I'd argue with the Mets expecting Bassitt to be a 4/5. He's pretty clearly been a 2/3 for a few years now and while they had some other arms over him, he's pitched to a 2/3 level this year as well. But yes, they need to go get a couple. Bassitt is one of them who I think is a great fit actually. But they need at least two veteran starters whether it's by free agency or trade and that doesn't include Greinke coming back, in my opinion.
Gotta give it to JJ - getting Drew and a couple of other players for the 35th pick in the draft now looks like a pretty good move. Let's give credit where credit is deserved. No way this was a Dayton Moore move.
Oh absolutely it wasn't. I think we all figured it was JJ's move at the time and John Sherman made it pretty clear in the DM firing press conference that JJ did it. Good on him for it. I'm still intrigued by Andrew Hoffmann, the pitcher they got in the deal. He needs a little work, but with the right development moves this winter, he's someone who I think could be a surprise rotation candidate in the nearish future.
Boy that's tough. Not that you asked my thought process, but I'd look at the guys I feel like need to be in there on a daily basis first. That's Salvy, Vinnie, BWJ, MJ, Waters and Massey. And then I'd supplement. I think Olivares is close to that first level. Then you're looking at probably Nate Eaton and looking at who is on the current roster, probably Nick Pratto.
I think I'd go:
Olivares RF
Pasquantino DH
Witt SS
Perez C
Melendez LF
Waters CF
Massey 2B
Pratto 1B
Eaton 3B
But I think there's room for a veteran bat somewhere in there and I think they'll move someone too for pitching, so that'll definitely change, but I *think* that's my lineup at this point.
Edit: I had Oli in there twice and no Massey. Whoops.
What happened to Witt/Massey/Waters up the middle (previous answer)? I don't see where Pratto displaces Vinnie at first (Vinnie isn't that far behind on defense), but no matter: I think Pratto gets moved in the off-season for one of those pitchers you mentioned. I think Eaton can move between IF/OF when MJ catches...and I'm hoping Olivares breaks out to the point that he can DH when Perez catches (and Isbel plays OF).
I'm just dumb and had Olivares in there twice and no Massey. Whoops. Fixed it in the edit.
Just want to edit this to add that while Pasquantino is solid enough at first, Pratto is unequivocally better. He's excellent there. It's a big defensive upgrade and that's not a knock on Vinnie.
I don't know that Hanniger is a solution. His injury history scares me. Olivares deserves a chance to see what he can do, if he can stay healthy. I think he will hit and Isbel mskes a decent fourth outfielder. I just wish Isbel would hit more. Greinke has been a great mentor for the kids, but not a great example. Too much pitching out of the zone. When you don't have the stuff, you need to be on the edges. Too many pitches in the zone or way out. Run prevention was Brady Singer. 137 innings isn't much for what Zack was paid. I would have liked him to get a little deeper in games.
Don't get hung up on the name. I literally picked a righty corner outfield bat from the list. I like Olivares too, but I think the Royals will want a veteran somewhere. Maybe that's a first baseman/DH type and they move Pratto. But it doesn't REALLY matter.
As for Greinke, free agents cost what they cost and $13 million is the going rate for one year. It'll probably be less for next season for him. I don't really care about the total number of innings. He averaged the average starter number of outs per start, and was actually slightly above average there. The Royals have one starter for next season who you can count on and he was bad enough a year ago that he had to fight for his rotation spot six months ago.
I will buy you lunch every day for a year if Witt is in right field. If they didn’t move him off the infield by now, he isn’t moving. Also, Gentry and Olivares are both right-handed bats, so I don’t see that platoon happening.
Still, the fact that there are this many potential bats is a good thing.
I'd still try to sign him for next year. I think he's a good influence on the younger guys. I wouldn't worry about his pitch counts. He doesn't throw hard enough to hurt himself. Let him set an example to the younger guys. They need to learn how to pitch into the 7th or 8th inning. That will make the bullpen better. Everytime you change a pitcher you're taking a big chance of losing the game which is exactly what's been going on
I think waters can improve his strikeout rate. He's shown he's coachable. I'm not a big fan of Melendez. All he can do is take a walk. That's not good enough. He's not a good fielder and he can't hit. With his stance and unorthodox swing, unless he changes I don't see him improving
Whew, so glad he caught that ball at his face. That would have been an awful end to his career. He's always been such a good fielder and it really saved his brain and his face. So happy to have had him back this year.
Ha, yep. He’s saved himself many times.
Love seeing Greinke back and in a Royals uniform. IDK about re-signing him for 13M again. Surely, that 13M can get you someone with a little more upside can’t it? In the end, a one year deal doesn’t really matter so its probably worth it and its not my money so you probably do it. He just doesn’t really excite me at this stage in his career. But the numbers are what they are and he was a valuable pitcher for the royals this year. If you are preaching strikes….he’s a good vet to have on the staff with how he doesn’t walk anyone.
But like I wrote, I don’t think it takes $13 million next year. At the same time, like you said, I don’t especially care how much one you costs on a one year deal. If they had four starters and needed one, I’d be fine letting him walk. But man, they need at least three guys. Hard to turn down what he’s done this year.
The combination of good vets and promising rookies is a good one, provided the vets can still play. It's working out very well for the Cardinals this year. I hope the Royals do bring back Zach. And yes, Waters should be a center piece in the outfield for years to come. Kind of an Amos Otis type player. Also, Massey reminds me a lot of Frank White. Some very good pieces to anchor the middle.
The biggest question for me in the middle is if Bobby Witt Jr. can play shortstop long-term. His error last night notwithstanding, he's been much better there over the last six weeks or so. If you can get Witt/Massey/Waters up the middle with Isbel as a solid fourth outfielder who is a great defender, I think you're looking pretty good there.
But as we've all discussed for awhile now, I don't think anyone is worried about the bats long term. Okay, that's not true. Some are, but I don't think there's a real reason to worry. It's all about pitching. Figure that out and I think things change fast.
I agree. The Royals need some pitching help from outside the organization. It's not reasonable to expect several pitchers to make the leap that Singer made this year. They need to sign a couple of league average pitchers who actually over perform their past record. Jason Vargas, Jeremy Guthrie were such pitchers during the last surge. Cueto and Shields were well above average pitchers to start with. The Mets brought in Bassett this year expecting a 4th or 5th starter and he surprised big time to the upside. The Royals need to catch that kind of lightning in a bottle.
I'd argue with the Mets expecting Bassitt to be a 4/5. He's pretty clearly been a 2/3 for a few years now and while they had some other arms over him, he's pitched to a 2/3 level this year as well. But yes, they need to go get a couple. Bassitt is one of them who I think is a great fit actually. But they need at least two veteran starters whether it's by free agency or trade and that doesn't include Greinke coming back, in my opinion.
Gotta give it to JJ - getting Drew and a couple of other players for the 35th pick in the draft now looks like a pretty good move. Let's give credit where credit is deserved. No way this was a Dayton Moore move.
Oh absolutely it wasn't. I think we all figured it was JJ's move at the time and John Sherman made it pretty clear in the DM firing press conference that JJ did it. Good on him for it. I'm still intrigued by Andrew Hoffmann, the pitcher they got in the deal. He needs a little work, but with the right development moves this winter, he's someone who I think could be a surprise rotation candidate in the nearish future.
Your dream/yet realistic opening day line-up for 2023? Of course, you can change your thinking as the offseason progresses.
Boy that's tough. Not that you asked my thought process, but I'd look at the guys I feel like need to be in there on a daily basis first. That's Salvy, Vinnie, BWJ, MJ, Waters and Massey. And then I'd supplement. I think Olivares is close to that first level. Then you're looking at probably Nate Eaton and looking at who is on the current roster, probably Nick Pratto.
I think I'd go:
Olivares RF
Pasquantino DH
Witt SS
Perez C
Melendez LF
Waters CF
Massey 2B
Pratto 1B
Eaton 3B
But I think there's room for a veteran bat somewhere in there and I think they'll move someone too for pitching, so that'll definitely change, but I *think* that's my lineup at this point.
Edit: I had Oli in there twice and no Massey. Whoops.
What happened to Witt/Massey/Waters up the middle (previous answer)? I don't see where Pratto displaces Vinnie at first (Vinnie isn't that far behind on defense), but no matter: I think Pratto gets moved in the off-season for one of those pitchers you mentioned. I think Eaton can move between IF/OF when MJ catches...and I'm hoping Olivares breaks out to the point that he can DH when Perez catches (and Isbel plays OF).
Now all we need is a starting pitching rotation!
I'm just dumb and had Olivares in there twice and no Massey. Whoops. Fixed it in the edit.
Just want to edit this to add that while Pasquantino is solid enough at first, Pratto is unequivocally better. He's excellent there. It's a big defensive upgrade and that's not a knock on Vinnie.
I don't know that Hanniger is a solution. His injury history scares me. Olivares deserves a chance to see what he can do, if he can stay healthy. I think he will hit and Isbel mskes a decent fourth outfielder. I just wish Isbel would hit more. Greinke has been a great mentor for the kids, but not a great example. Too much pitching out of the zone. When you don't have the stuff, you need to be on the edges. Too many pitches in the zone or way out. Run prevention was Brady Singer. 137 innings isn't much for what Zack was paid. I would have liked him to get a little deeper in games.
Don't get hung up on the name. I literally picked a righty corner outfield bat from the list. I like Olivares too, but I think the Royals will want a veteran somewhere. Maybe that's a first baseman/DH type and they move Pratto. But it doesn't REALLY matter.
As for Greinke, free agents cost what they cost and $13 million is the going rate for one year. It'll probably be less for next season for him. I don't really care about the total number of innings. He averaged the average starter number of outs per start, and was actually slightly above average there. The Royals have one starter for next season who you can count on and he was bad enough a year ago that he had to fight for his rotation spot six months ago.
I think I like this lineup:
Salvy C
Pasq DH
Pratto 1b
Massey 2b
Mond or Nicky or Garcia ss
Melendez / Eaton 3b*
Witt rf
Waters cf
Gentry/ Olivares lf*
* platoon
Since I am concerned about pitching I am looking for a strong defense. Melendez would rest Salvy.
I think Witt will adjust better to rf than ss. Gentry and Garcia will likely need a month or two in AAA.
I will buy you lunch every day for a year if Witt is in right field. If they didn’t move him off the infield by now, he isn’t moving. Also, Gentry and Olivares are both right-handed bats, so I don’t see that platoon happening.
Still, the fact that there are this many potential bats is a good thing.
I'd still try to sign him for next year. I think he's a good influence on the younger guys. I wouldn't worry about his pitch counts. He doesn't throw hard enough to hurt himself. Let him set an example to the younger guys. They need to learn how to pitch into the 7th or 8th inning. That will make the bullpen better. Everytime you change a pitcher you're taking a big chance of losing the game which is exactly what's been going on
I think waters can improve his strikeout rate. He's shown he's coachable. I'm not a big fan of Melendez. All he can do is take a walk. That's not good enough. He's not a good fielder and he can't hit. With his stance and unorthodox swing, unless he changes I don't see him improving